Drop tune - why is it looked down on?

[lucas vigor]

Not really... Folks like you keep saying "but you can play the same thing with a standard tuned 5 string" and while that may technically be true, there are reasons a lot of us drop and the biggest reason is because we write in such a way that a drop tuning does fit the music and make it easier to play.

Like I said, it's fine for your style....but get used to it, and then try to play something else, and you will find out how hard it is later. I am just a huge advocate of learning things the right way. Wasn't always like that, of course. Heck, I even used to play with a pick!!!!!

I just wish someone had taught me the right way, early on....I know I would be much better now!

 

[zachoff]

There is a difference between a good singer songwriter, and one not so good, for example...and that difference sometimes means one is cheating by using a capo all the time. Let's face it, it means they can learn 4 chords and play in any key on their guitar.

Yeah, all those terrible singer/songwriters that use a capo like Neil Young, Bob Dylan, J Mascis, Keith Richards, Dave Matthews... Making something easy doesn't make something good suddenly sound bad.

 

[WarPhalange]

I have my 5-string tuned DGCFBb and use a capo to go up a half step or whole step as needed. I don't feel like tuning to whatever I need to make the song work.

Also, you have to realize why there is such a thing as "standard" tuning. It's the tuning that let's us do the most with the least amount of effort. Tuning in 5ths would give the bass more range, but make it somewhat harder to play.

 

[lucas vigor]

Yeah, all those terrible singer/songwriters that use a capo like Neil Young, Bob Dylan, J Mascis, Keith Richards, Dave Matthews... Making something easy doesn't make something good suddenly sound bad.

There is a HUGE difference between being successful at something, and being good at it.

Sorry to say this, but every single one of your examples are not great guitarists. Not really. People like them, but that does not make them able to step into another realm altogether. Take Keith Richards. Guitar icon, no doubt....but he could not play jazz or pop, and I am willing to guess he would be out of his element and unable to play heavy metal. And glad you mentioned him, because I think he also drop tunes.

Following your logic about "making something easy doesn't make something bad"...why not extend it to other things as well, while we are at it? How about auto tune? There are music producers who swear by it, and consider it no more of a cheat then using a reverb or chorus box.

And why not put metal keys on a bass, like they do with a flute? Surely it would be easier to play, and I am thinking that the metal sound on the fingerboard would be more focused and hard edged then weak finger flesh!

Or how about use a drum machine and sequencer instead of a real drummer? Surely I could program more killer double bass drum riffs with my fingers then actually taking the time to learn to use my feet and the pedals?

 

[zachoff]

Like I said, it's fine for your style....but get used to it, and then try to play something else, and you will find out how hard it is later. I am just a huge advocate of learning things the right way. Wasn't always like that, of course. Heck, I even used to play with a pick!!!!!

I just wish someone had taught me the right way, early on....I know I would be much better now!

I don't understand what you mean by get used to it. Switching between tunings doesn't make any difference to me. If a song was written in E I'll play it in E and if was written in Eb I'll play it in Eb and so on.

I could see a problem if you only had one bass or you wrote in a bunch of weird tunings but that's not the case with my band. We write in E, drop D, and drop C and don't play any covers so the two basses I use will suffice and the only tuning I have to do is tune the D string up to E for a couple songs.

Another "right" way to play being with fingers... Silly.

 

[lucas vigor]

I have my 5-string tuned DGCFBb and use a capo to go up a half step or whole step as needed. I don't feel like tuning to whatever I need to make the song work.

Also, you have to realize why there is such a thing as "standard" tuning. It's the tuning that let's us do the most with the least amount of effort. Tuning in 5ths would give the bass more range, but make it somewhat harder to play.

Why would you tune like this?

 

[zachoff]

There is a HUGE difference between being successful at something, and being good at it.

Sorry to say this, but every single one of your examples are not great guitarists. Not really. People like them, but that does not make them able to step into another realm altogether. Take Keith Richards. Guitar icon, no doubt....but he could not play jazz or pop, and I am willing to guess he would be out of his element and unable to play heavy metal. And glad you mentioned him, because I think he also drop tunes.

Following your logic about "making something easy doesn't make something bad"...why not extend it to other things as well, while we are at it? How about auto tune? There are music producers who swear by it, and consider it no more of a cheat then using a reverb or chorus box.

And why not put metal keys on a bass, like they do with a flute? Surely it would be easier to play, and I am thinking that the metal sound on the fingerboard would be more focused and hard edged then weak finger flesh!

Or how about use a drum machine and sequencer instead of a real drummer? Surely I could program more killer double bass drum riffs with my fingers then actually taking the time to learn to use my feet and the pedals?

You'll notice I said "Making something easy doesn't make something good suddenly sound bad. "

It has to sound good in the first place. All of your examples are of things that either do, or probably would sound bad in the first place.

..edit..

Is there even guitar in pop music anymore?

 

[lucas vigor]

You'll notice I said "Making something easy doesn't make something good suddenly sound bad. "

It has to sound good in the first place. All of your examples are of things that either do, or probably would sound bad in the first place.

..edit..

Is there even guitar in pop music anymore?

Right, and to my ears, the extremely down tuned stuff does not sound very good.

 

[KwinS]

Like I said, it's fine for your style....but get used to it, and then try to play something else, and you will find out how hard it is later. I am just a huge advocate of learning things the right way. Wasn't always like that, of course. Heck, I even used to play with a pick!!!!!

I just wish someone had taught me the right way, early on....I know I would be much better now!

Are you seriously saying here that using a pick is wrong? Why not learn both fingers and pick? Tony Franklin does, as well as use drop D. I think he's a pretty decent player. Do you? Or do think he should learn to play in a different way?

 

[lucas vigor]

Are you seriously saying here that using a pick is wrong? Why not learn both fingers and pick? Tony Franklin does, as well as use drop D. I think he's a pretty decent player. Do you? Or do think he should learn to play in a different way?

I think the standard way to play a bass is fingers, 4 strings, tuned normally, and with flats. That is more or less how it was intended to be used when it was invented.


Playing any other way is cool, as long as you can also play the original way. I would even say it is mandatory to learn the original way first.

My problem is with younger players who start out drop tuning, and never leave it or focus too much on it. I just think they are on the wrong track.

I don't believe in learning an instrument the wrong way, developing cheating methods, crutches, etc....

I am giving you my personal reasons why I don't think drop tuning is a good idea. Either listen to them or not.

Yes, I see how it could be used occasionally for a purpose....but as I said 3 times above, you have whole bands now that only know how to play that way, for them, drop tuning is standard...not the exception.

And I believe they are doing it not so much for the tone, but because it makes them look like they are "shredding" that much harder! Using open strings is a lot easier then trying to use the correct positions with your hand....so it's cheating.

 

[Hank Stone]

The deal with drop tuning and discrimination is in the player. There is a mis-concemption that heavy metal or dropped tuned songs are easy and Neanderthal mind like developed.
"open, open frist,,open open first, open open first,, third-------- open open first,..... (repeat for the whole song.)"

Sorry but this is just the feedback I have gotten. But really it can thicken out a song, sonically, and may (or may not) help the vocalist out. If there range is a lower c to e why tune to e/440? I may be wrong, but I find people don't realise just because the strings are tuned down to, whatever, the pattern may be the same. Dropped D and dropped C,, are relatively the same thing. Relatively, as in the patterns will be the same, yet the sound with change.

I remember the first time I down tuned,,, I was really confused because my tuner was out, and saying weird stuff,, the song made no sense,,, but as soon as i realised *how* the notes had changed,, i was ok. The patterns had moved but remained the same.

 

[lucas vigor]

And to follow up on learning things the time-honored, correct way...I can use Tony Levin as an example. He started out with a regular bass, mastered that and THEN moved on to the chapman stick and funk fingers and other obscure instruments.

I myself am using exercise books of a bass method that are over 100 years old (Simandl)...and even back then this man covered every aspect of bass you could think of. I use it, even though there are other newer, methods for playing upright (Rabbath) that are radically different.....because I don't like to re-invent the wheel. There may come a time when I start learning the newer methods, but only after I have mastered the original theory. And I am a long way away from that.

 

[Febs]

If there range is a lower c to e why tune to e/440?

e/440?

 

[Rudreax]

I think the standard way to play a bass is fingers, 4 strings, tuned normally, and with flats. That is more or less how it was intended to be used when it was invented.


Playing any other way is cool, as long as you can also play the original way. I would even say it is mandatory to learn the original way first.

My problem is with younger players who start out drop tuning, and never leave it or focus too much on it. I just think they are on the wrong track.

I don't believe in learning an instrument the wrong way, developing cheating methods, crutches, etc....

I am giving you my personal reasons why I don't think drop tuning is a good idea. Either listen to them or not.

Yes, I see how it could be used occasionally for a purpose....but as I said 3 times above, you have whole bands now that only know how to play that way, for them, drop tuning is standard...not the exception.

And I believe they are doing it not so much for the tone, but because it makes them look like they are "shredding" that much harder! Using open strings is a lot easier then trying to use the correct positions with your hand....so it's cheating.

Because everyone loves to compare stuff to classical music...do you think that when classical composers used altered tunings to make it easier to play certain pieces they were cheating?

To be honest if you really want to play bass the standard way get an upright.

When it comes to original music you're going to want to do things to the instrument to better facilitate the creation of a sound you want to hear. If you need to use dropped or alternate tunings to do that why is that wrong? These are people that want to make and play music in a specific way and are doing what they need to do in order to do that. Why are they wrong for deviating from the norm? Hell, if we all stuck to the norm we wouldn't have all the awesome music that's out there now. These things aren't cheating and to think that it is just seems very silly to me.

 

[WarPhalange]

Why would you tune like this?

Try reading the other half of the sentence.

I can play songs that are written in D-standard tuning just fine, and when I want to play a song in E-standard (which is most of the time), I just put a capo on. Since it's a 5 string, I don't really lose out on any notes, either, since the 5th string covers it.

I don't like having to fiddle around with tuning my bass every time I want to play a song that's in D or E tuning, then also having to worry about string height, action, tension, etc.

 

[WarPhalange]

I think the standard way to play a bass is fingers, 4 strings, tuned normally, and with flats. That is more or less how it was intended to be used when it was invented.

Then how come the first bass guitars came with pick guards?

 

[SanDiegoHarry]

e/440?

You know... That other E - the modal one...

 

[*insertcoolname]

I think the standard way to play a bass is fingers, 4 strings, tuned normally, and with flats. That is more or less how it was intended to be used when it was invented.


Playing any other way is cool, as long as you can also play the original way. I would even say it is mandatory to learn the original way first.

My problem is with younger players who start out drop tuning, and never leave it or focus too much on it. I just think they are on the wrong track.

I don't believe in learning an instrument the wrong way, developing cheating methods, crutches, etc....

I am giving you my personal reasons why I don't think drop tuning is a good idea. Either listen to them or not.

Yes, I see how it could be used occasionally for a purpose....but as I said 3 times above, you have whole bands now that only know how to play that way, for them, drop tuning is standard...not the exception.

And I believe they are doing it not so much for the tone, but because it makes them look like they are "shredding" that much harder! Using open strings is a lot easier then trying to use the correct positions with your hand....so it's cheating.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_CBad0ntks...AMM/Byz0gCE4ajI/s1600/hater_gonna_hate_02.jpg

Does it come naturally or do you have to try to be as close minded as you are?

 

[SanDiegoHarry]

Then how come the first bass guitars came with pick guards?

because Leo knew that guitarists, looking to double, would use them.

 

[WarPhalange]

because Leo knew that guitarists, looking to double, would use them.

So... it's almost like he knew that the basses he developed would be used with a pick... therefore made the bass design incorporate that? Interesting.