Drop tune - why is it looked down on?

[zachoff]

Right, and to my ears, the extremely down tuned stuff does not sound very good.

Do you like anything on piano that hits notes lower than your standard E?

 

[lucas vigor]

Then how come the first bass guitars came with pick guards?

They also have thumb rests.

 

[lucas vigor]

Do you like anything on piano that hits notes lower than your standard E?

Of course. And as a 5 and 6 string electric bass player, I do use the low notes....but most people realize that you want to use those low notes selectively, and for dramatic effect. The bassist Jimmy Haslip was an expert at this. But you guys take it much farther and base your whole songs around the low notes. After a while, and to my ears, it's a bit much. It's no longer dropping "B Bombs", but more like carpet bombing!

But, some of it sounds cool. There is a time and place for it, but as a rule? I would say it's not for me. To me, it's just a gimmick for trying to sound all hard and dangerous. And what I like in music is those artists and bands that can play with quiet intensity, even making soft or slow music sound powerful.

 

[KwinS]

Great. Maybe we have discovered that they have at least two different was they can be played.

 

[fractiouslowend]

I have a friend I used to race cars with, going into corners he would drop gears and use the transmission to help him slow the car. This works, it does ****** the engine and help slow the car.

Of course the brakes also slow the car effectivly. He didn't seem to get that it is better to wear out your $30 brake pads than a much more expensive transmission.

Drop tuning to me is kind of the same, all the young guys seem to swear by it but I would guess that is born out of ignorance and misunderstanding.

All 12 keys are represented on the bass (or guitar for that matter) and you can play in all of them without screwing up your tuning to do it. What is happening though is guys learn to play in 1 key only (really just memorising patterns) and then use screwy tunings and capos in order to do something as simple as change key.

I have no hate against those who do this, I just avoid the big red flag that this, to them, seems to be the best way they have discovered to change keys and makes me think they really know very little about there instrument.

Olders guys not embracing change???? no, they just know the young guys are dumbing down the instrument and don't want any part of it. When they tell you to use standard tuning, they are really politely telling you to go learn your instrument properly and stop trying to make it up as you go along.

-eSmith.

anyone who uses drop tuning as a 'crutch' wouldn't instantly become better if they were in standard tuning, they would just use a different crutch.

in the last song i wrote, the verse modulates between F# minor and F major, with the chorus is G# minor.
yes it was written in drop tuning.
there are a lot of chords with added seconds / flat thirds / thirds in this song, and they wouldn't be possible to play in regular tuning.

before you assert that drop tuning is just for people who don't know any theory, and this is the only way they can get by, try listening to some tool / porcupine tree / opeth or something along thos lines.

 

[KwinS]

Of course. And as a 5 and 6 string electric bass player, I do use the low notes....but most people realize that you want to use those low notes selectively, and for dramatic effect. The bassist Jimmy Haslip was an expert at this. But you guys take it much farther and base your whole songs around the low notes. After a while, and to my ears, it's a bit much. It's no longer dropping "B Bombs", but more like carpet bombing!

But, some of it sounds cool. There is a time and place for it, but as a rule? I would say it's not for me. To me, it's just a gimmick for trying to sound all hard and dangerous. And what I like in music is those artists and bands that can play with quiet intensity, even making soft or slow music sound powerful.

I would argue that Haslip is still a master of tasty low note use. What has happened, is that your taste has changed, to exclude several styles. Cool for you.

 

[fractiouslowend]

I already know why people do it. I just know it isn't required. There are no songs that cannot be played in standard tuning. All that the guys doing this are accomplishing is to relocate the notes under each fret. This isn't a complicated concept.

Imagine a drummer stopping between songs to put the snare drum at his foot and his bass drum by his hands all to avoid having to learn how to play the Snare on 1 and 3 rather than 2 and 4.... That is essentially what you are doing.

Good luck with that......

-eSmith.

no, it's more like a drummer getting x-hats so they can quickly switch between ride and hats.

drop tuning (when done correctly) has nothing to do with making the riffs easier to play, it is about being able to play chords or riffs that are NOT POSSIBLE to play (effectively).

Granted this does have more of an effect on guitar than on bass, but i don't think anyone here would argue that 'freedom' by rage against the machine is hard riff to play in drop d - but it it would be damn near impossible to play smoothly on a 5 stringer.

 

[KwinS]

Of course. And as a 5 and 6 string electric bass player, I do use the low notes....but most people realize that you want to use those low notes selectively, and for dramatic effect. The bassist Jimmy Haslip was an expert at this. But you guys take it much farther and base your whole songs around the low notes. After a while, and to my ears, it's a bit much. It's no longer dropping "B Bombs", but more like carpet bombing!

But, some of it sounds cool. There is a time and place for it, but as a rule? I would say it's not for me. To me, it's just a gimmick for trying to sound all hard and dangerous. And what I like in music is those artists and bands that can play with quiet intensity, even making soft or slow music sound powerful.

Earlier, you claimed that you believed 4 strings, fingers, flat wounds (I'm paraphrasing here) were the way to go. Now, you're a 5 and 6 string player? You also said that the standard basics were the thing-Now you bring up Haslip, who plays a right-handed bass (strung right-handed), turned upside down-with anywhere from 4 to 7 strings.

Which way is it?

 

[jmercer91]

i think that generally when you drop tune too far, like past d. you lose some clarity in the low end

 

[lucas vigor]

I started out on 4 string electric, years ago. Many, many years. But when 5 strings started becoming more and more common, I had to learn how to play them.

And I wasn't talking about Haslip an example of traditional playing. I was just using him as an example of HOW to best use notes lower then E.

 

[sonicnuance]

we're bassists... I say drop the note as low as you can amplify it

shake the room!

 

[zachoff]

i think that generally when you drop tune too far, like past d. you lose some clarity in the low end

I agree and it's the major reason I don't use distortion when I play in low C.

 

[lucas vigor]

I am pretty sure that when Jaquo IIIX plays his subcontra bass tuned to low C#, it drives people to suicide, madness, causes fillings to fall out, etc....but there is a time and a place, you know?


I have one of his CDs. Playing it through a good stereo system makes you feel like someone punched you in the balls.

 

[Drifta]

because that's what being in a band is.
often as a bass player, you reinforce the guitar parts to make them heavier / fuller / whatever.
in metal, this usually means doubling the guitar part.

as a side note, everyone here seems to be under the impression that if the bass is playing the same thing as the guitar(s), then the bass is copying them, with those kind of riffs, often very little else is possible
why do you think it isn't the other way around?
in many bands (including my own) the bass player comes up with a riff (on bass) and then the guitarists copy that.

because when someone says "MAKES IT EASIER TO FOLLOW THE GUITAR" one can infer that he's following the guitar, not the guitar following him. And I still don't understand that.. I mean if the guitar is playing an Am , you can play Am, only reason it would make it easier is if you're starring into the guitard's fretboard looking for direction.

And doesn't drop tuning/down tuning as you all claim, make it sound fuller/heavier? why even have bass if you're playing unison lines with bassy-guitars. sounds like a quick way to be forgotten as a bassist.
I don't follow guitars, guitars can follow me, but why? maybe play some muted notes over my line.. but the guitar is there for rhythm and melody, I control the bassline.

 

[Febs]

Did you get the file?

I had a chance to look at the file. When I open in in Tux Guitar (I don't have Guitar Pro) the bass part is in treble clef. When I put it into bass clef, it's written an octave above where it should be and I haven't figured out if there is a way to get Tux Guitar to transpose it down an octave.

Regardless, reading through the music and transposing it into the octave it should be played, there is nothing that I see that would not be playable on a standard tuned 5 string with a capo on the first fret. Without the capo it would be a challenge at the tempo at which the song is played.

As an aside, just out of curiosity, why did you choose to write this song with sharps instead of flats? For example, measure 3 is a C minor arpeggio. Why write D# G C rather than Eb G C? Similarly, in measure 9-10, which is clearly some sort of F7 chord, why write F C D# C rather than F C Eb C?

 

[zachoff]

because when someone says "MAKES IT EASIER TO FOLLOW THE GUITAR" one can infer that he's following the guitar, not the guitar following him. And I still don't understand that.. I mean if the guitar is playing an Am , you can play Am, only reason it would make it easier is if you're starring into the guitard's fretboard looking for direction.

And doesn't drop tuning/down tuning as you all claim, make it sound fuller/heavier? why even have bass if you're playing unison lines with bassy-guitars. sounds like a quick way to be forgotten as a bassist.
I don't follow guitars, guitars can follow me, but why? maybe play some muted notes over my line.. but the guitar is there for rhythm and melody, I control the bassline.

FWIW, it goes both ways. If I come up with a riff it's a lot easier to show the guitar player if we're tuned the same and vice versa. Whether the guitar is tuned to E or A, the bass is still an octave lower and still adds that extra "huge" that a lot of us are looking for regardless of the bassiness of the guitar sound.

 

[Drifta]

FWIW, it goes both ways. If I come up with a riff it's a lot easier to show the guitar player if we're tuned the same and vice versa. Whether the guitar is tuned to E or A, the bass is still an octave lower and still adds that extra "huge" that a lot of us are looking for regardless of the bassiness of the guitar sound.

This statement makes it sound like a shortcut.

I just expect players in my bands to be able to communicate, guitar, keys, horns, vocalists what a riff is or a chord/note without looking at fretboards. If i come up with a riff I should be able to just tell the guitar player (if he can't tell already) what key or chord it is in. If they have to look at my fretboard, then they probably need to work on their theory..

 

[zachoff]

This statement makes it sound like a shortcut.

I just expect players in my bands to be able to communicate, guitar, keys, horns, vocalists what a riff is or a chord/note without looking at fretboards. If i come up with a riff I should be able to just tell the guitar player (if he can't tell already) what key or chord it is in. If they have to look at my fretboard, then they probably need to work on their theory..

This theory you speak of doesn't exist in my band. We're not shortcutting anything because we don't have the knowledge or the time to do it the "long" way. I expect the guitar player and I to collaborate in writing our songs and showing each other what we're playing is the only way we know. You're talking horns and keyboreds and all that crap... We're a 3 piece. It doesn't take a lot of effort to say, "No, you need to play a flat here instead."

Do you use charts with your bands? How is that not a shortcut? Players in your band should just be able to call out and follow the changes, right?

I don't get why all of you jazz guys keep chiming in here, anyway. Stirring the pot, I guess. Drop tuning is, for the most part, not right for you and that's fine. It doesn't mean it's not right for other kinds of music. Jazz is not the be all, end all of anything... Far from it.

 

[JAUQO III-X]

I am pretty sure that when Jaquo IIIX plays his subcontra bass tuned to low C#, it drives people to suicide, madness, causes fillings to fall out, etc....but there is a time and a place, you know?


I have one of his CDs. Playing it through a good stereo system makes you feel like someone punched you in the balls.

 

[Drifta]

This theory you speak of doesn't exist in my band. We're not shortcutting anything because we don't have the knowledge or the time to do it the "long" way. I expect the guitar player and I to collaborate in writing our songs and showing each other what we're playing is the only way we know. You're talking horns and keyboreds and all that crap... We're a 3 piece. It doesn't take a lot of effort to say, "No, you need to play a flat here instead."

Do you use charts with your bands? How is that not a shortcut? Players in your band should just be able to call out and follow the changes, right?

I don't get why all of you jazz guys keep chiming in here, anyway. Stirring the pot, I guess. Drop tuning is, for the most part, not right for you and that's fine. It doesn't mean it's not right for other kinds of music. Jazz is not the be all, end all of anything... Far from it.

keyboreds and all that crap? and i'm not a jazz guy yet... working at it! reggae/dancehall/soul is where my home is.

Isn't that the point of this thread? surely, the OP knew what this would turn into.