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Drop tune - why is it looked down on?
- Thread starter EatADeadGoat
- Start date
This is only my second metal band... I mostly played in indie/punk, ska, and cover bands back in the day. Metal has just come lately & fwiw, it's super fun.
Regardless... The answer to the OP's question is still "because the jazz guys say so."
Long before metal or this particular little Holy War about drop tuning came along, there was this:
Ron Carter was using one in the 1960s. So were Richard Davis and others. You can set these up with multiple stops, not just E as pictured, for quick change to any drop tuning you want.
EDIT: ...and the classical players were using them long before the 60s.
The C extension doesn't really put the instrument into drop tuning, per se. Yes, it extends the range of the instrument below the E when the stop is open, but the notes above the open E remain exactly where they would be otherwise. The purpose of the extension is simply to extend the range of the instrument, not to alter the interval from one string to the next.
Or, in my case, the funk guys. Heck, I'm more of a "whatever genre they are paying me to play" guy.
I just think it's funny that anyone would worry about what I, or anyone else, thinks about how they tune. Silly silly silly.
okcrum
in your chest
Well, some folks didn't much like it. The classical purists thought it was heresy.
From Wikipedia:
"In the Romantic era and the 20th-century, composers such as Mahler, Beethoven, Busoni, and Prokofiev also requested notes below the low E."
So it first appeared in the 1800s, but really became legit when the big time composers started to write for it. Some double bass players also tune in 5ths C-G-D-A, basically a cello an octave lower.
Well, one always needs to remember that the upright bass was pretty far from a "standard" instrument early in its existence.
Lots of pre-20th century double basses were three stringed as opposed to four, and were tuned in fifths... or fourths...
Oh, and there were a number of 5/6 string upright basses also.
...and the different types of physical construction - Gamba corners, Violin corners, French, Busetto, arched back, flat back...
okcrum
in your chest
Remember that the electric bass was not considered a real instrument when it first came along in numbers, in the early 1950s.
The double bass had been around at least 200 years when the C extension came along, so I'd guess it was a pretty standard instrument by then.
Ummm... the current standard double bass hasn't even been around 200 years as of today.
The current style of 4 strings tuned in fourths became standard in the 1850s.
Some of the most famous "old" basses around were originally three strings that were converted to four. For example - the Gary Karr/Serge Koussevitsky Amati.
Salo basses, Amati basses, Testore basses...
Dragonetti playing a 3 string:
Nope, not really. In fact, it STILL isn't all that standard.
Solo vs. orchestral tuning. 4/5 string models. Violin vs. Gamba vs. French vs. Busetto corners. Arch vs. flat back. Non-standard sizing (even non standard SCALE length), etc.
Glad to see this thread has gotten back onto the relative merits of tuning / history. Much more interesting.
okcrum
in your chest
Ummm... the current standard double bass hasn't even been around 200 years as of today.
The current style of 4 strings tuned in fourths became standard in the 1850s.
Some of the most famous "old" basses around were originally three strings that were converted to four. For example - the Gary Karr/Serge Koussevitsky Amati.
Salo basses, Amati basses, Testore basses...
Dragonetti playing a 3 string:
Nope, not really. In fact, it STILL isn't all that standard.
Solo vs. orchestral tuning. 4/5 string models. Violin vs. Gamba vs. French vs. Busetto corners. Arch vs. flat back. Non-standard sizing (even non standard SCALE length), etc.
Understood. I was commenting on the double bass function, not the execution.
My old bass teacher had a 17th century Italian bass that was a 4 string, but I'm not sure if it had been converted.
Pfft.. Those classical guys only played 3 strings and tuned to C to make their songs easier to play. Hacks, the lot of them!
I think that the term "drop-tuning" is accurate enough in the context it's been used in this thread, because you're dropping an entire string in pitch.
A C extension on a doublebass, by contrast, does not drop the pitch of the entire string; it merely extends the string so that there are additional pitches available below what would otherwise be the lowest pitch.
This is not the same thing as tuning the E string on a 4 string electric bass down to C. For example, if you tune the low E string of an electric bass down to C and play the open string, you'll play a C. If you play the dropped string at the 5th fret, you'll be playing an F. The interval between every note on the drop-tuned C string and the adjacent note on the A string will be a sixth.
By contrast, if you open the stop on a C extension on a doublebass and play the open string, you'll be playing a C. But if you play that string at the fifth "fret," it will sound an A just as it would if the bass had no C extension. The interval between any note on the extended C string above the E and the adjacent note on the A string will still be a fourth.
okcrum
in your chest
Actually double basses do also get drop tuned, as well as tuned in fifths and extended. Point was, it's been done long ago.
- Feb 27, 2005
- 3,218
- 125
- Disclosures
- Full disclosure, I'm a certified Fender technician working in a music store that carries Fender, Yamaha, and Ibanez products among others.
+1. I'm not sure any band I've been in would notice if I drop-tuned my bass. In fact, I'm sure they wouldn't. I generally don't, and wouldn't unless I started playing Tool covers again or something.
Why all the fuss? It's a different tuning, big deal. It looks to me like people have a problem with crappy metal bands, not a system of tuning. Just sayin', if some bands exhibited songwriting skills instead of relying on a tuning to sound heavy, no one would complain. I don't hear anyone criticising Jimmy Page for detuning on Brom-y-Aur, or people criticizing Celtic musicians' tunings (the Celtic world never recognized Spanish standard EADBGE as far as I know), and I don't hear anyone complaining about Opeth's DADFAD tuning, or Fear Factory's use of drop-tuned 7-string baritones.
It's because all those guys can write, and a lot of metal/hard rock bands who drop-tune can't.
In my opinion, and all that. This thread was a long read. I feel a nap coming on.
Jazzdogg
Less barking, more wagging!
Two questions:
If one chooses to tune an electric bass lower than usual, at what point is it necessary to alter the set-up, or change to strings with higher tension, to maintain playability?
For those you de-tune their basses, what kinds of EQ changes do you use, if any, to accommodate lowered notes?
If one chooses to tune an electric bass lower than usual, at what point is it necessary to alter the set-up, or change to strings with higher tension, to maintain playability?
For those you de-tune their basses, what kinds of EQ changes do you use, if any, to accommodate lowered notes?
EXTREMELY WORRIED!!
again...
why is this a bad thing?
don't you want to make the stuff you play as easy for you to execute as possible?
you should only be playing with one finger on each hand too because using any more make's playing the songs easier.
I haven't read through the previous 19 pages, but I am going to give my opinion on the matter.
Drop tuning is usually associated, or most commonly used, in metal, hard rock, and punk music. Those forms of music are often looked down upon for requiring less talent. This is not necessarily true, but it is a commonly held prejudice by those who don't listen to those styles of music.
Drop tuning is usually associated, or most commonly used, in metal, hard rock, and punk music. Those forms of music are often looked down upon for requiring less talent. This is not necessarily true, but it is a commonly held prejudice by those who don't listen to those styles of music.
