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Drop tune - why is it looked down on?

because when someone says "MAKES IT EASIER TO FOLLOW THE GUITAR" one can infer that he's following the guitar, not the guitar following him. And I still don't understand that.. I mean if the guitar is playing an Am , you can play Am, only reason it would make it easier is if you're starring into the guitard's fretboard looking for direction.

And doesn't drop tuning/down tuning as you all claim, make it sound fuller/heavier? why even have bass if you're playing unison lines with bassy-guitars. sounds like a quick way to be forgotten as a bassist.
I don't follow guitars, guitars can follow me, but why? maybe play some muted notes over my line.. but the guitar is there for rhythm and melody, I control the bassline.

you've clearly never been in a metal band.
metal doesn't really work if all the intruments aren't playing in unison.
so what if the bass and guitar are playing the same parts?
..once again, how is this a bad thing?
metal is about playing tightly as one unit, drums, guitars, bass and vocals all locking in together to create one huge wall of sound. If you're looking for subtlety don't look at death metal, listen to some prog.
 
There is a lot of fun to be had with downtuning. Different melodic and chordal approaches, contrasting between heavy and crispy tones and all.

Strangely, people who call on metalheads for doing it never tell Michael Manring or Adrian Belew how wrong they are.
+1. And my 2 cents, Tony Iommi and Gezzer butler were tuning down to C#standard on Volume 4 and Sabbath Bloody Sabbath. If what you're writting calls for it, then the sky's the limit.
 
I haven't read through the previous 19 pages, but I am going to give my opinion on the matter.

Drop tuning is usually associated, or most commonly used, in metal, hard rock, and punk music. Those forms of music are often looked down upon for requiring less talent. This is not necessarily true, but it is a commonly held prejudice by those who don't listen to those styles of music.

It also used in blues, quite a bit actually. Drop-D allows a guitarist to switch between using a slide and playing with fingers on the left hand pretty easily. It's also used in a lot of folk music, as are various alternate tunings. I don't think most people in either of those genres think twice about people who do or don't do it, it's just an accepted format, and bandmates are free to use whatever tuning they want for their instrument. I've never had a guitarist playing in drop-D insist that I detune as well, and I rarely do.
 
so... just to sum up the whole topic so far;
there are 2 kinds of players, people who use drop tuning and people who don't.

the people who do use it, do so because it makes certain patterns or chords easier to play and/or gives you the same open note as a guitar in drop tuning.

the people who don't use it say it's bad because......
.....IT MAKES IT EASIER?

i am yet to see ONE valid reason for not using drop tuning.
 
if anyone can play Lamb of God's "Laid to Rest" in standard 5 string or 4 string without using Drop D tuning, i would like that person to show me.

i do not like tuning and retuning my basses, but sometimes, it's the only way you can play some songs.

here's how i currently do the song (laid to rest):


 
or people criticizing Celtic musicians' tunings (the Celtic world never recognized Spanish standard EADBGE as far as I know)


Most stringed Irish traditional instruments are tuned in 5ths, except the bazouki, which is tuned G2,D3,A3,D4 usually, and the Clàrsach, which is the celtic harp.

A lot of Irish instruments aren't stringed, things like the concertina, uillean pipes, bodhran, tin whistles and flutes are as common, if not more common than stringed instruments.

The rest of the celtic world may vary, I only speak for my own country.
 
you've clearly never been in a metal band.
metal doesn't really work if all the intruments aren't playing in unison.
so what if the bass and guitar are playing the same parts?
..once again, how is this a bad thing?
metal is about playing tightly as one unit, drums, guitars, bass and vocals all locking in together to create one huge wall of sound. If you're looking for subtlety don't look at death metal, listen to some prog.

How the hell does metal NOT work without playing unison lines?

***?

are you serious?
 
the people who don't use it say it's bad because......
.....IT MAKES IT EASIER?

You're missing the point. There is nothing wrong with finding the easiest or most efficient way to play something. The nature of the criticism is when people use a shortcut in lieu of learning the fretboard and learning to play the instrument, and by doing so, limit what they can do with the instrument.

Altered tunings have certain advantages, but they also have certain disadvantages. For example, let's say I tune my guitar to Bruce Palmer modal tuning (EEEEBE) instead of EADGBE. Is there anything "wrong" with this tuning? No. It's a great tuning to use if I want to play "Suite: Judy Blue Eyes" or a handful of other songs, because it allows me to play some very rich-sounding, resonant chords in open positions up and down the neck.

But, even though that tuning is fantastic for that particular song and a few other songs, it is not a particularly good tuning for the vast majority of songs throughout history that have ever been played on a guitar. In fact, the very things that make that altered tuning good for certain songs make it very, very bad for others. For example, in that particular tuning, the bottom 4 strings are tuned either in unison or in octaves. This is excellent for droning open chords, but absolutely horrible for playing single-note lines, because single-note lines need to be played up and down a single string rather than across multiple strings.

There are certain advantages to standard tuning. Chief among those advantages, in my view, is the fact that there is a consistent interval of a fourth from string to string. That means that from any one string to the next, the fingerings for any particular interval are going to be the same. Want to play a fifth? No matter what note you start on, anywhere on the neck, a major third will always be one string up and one fret down from your root note. Want to play a fifth? No matter where you start on the neck, it will always be one string up and two frets up from your root note. Another advantage is that the entire chromatic scale is available with position shifts of no more than one fret in either direction (if you play 1234) or two frets in any direction (if you play 124). A one-octave major scale can be played in a closed position with no shifts if you play 1234 and shifts of no more than one fret if you play 124.

Drop-tuning has certain disadvantages compared to standard tuning. The interval between strings is inconsistent, so you lose the symmetry that standard tuning offers. Additional shifts become necessary to play certain lines. Sight-reading and playing by ear can become substantially more difficult. And probably most relevant to this discussion, drop-tuning tends to limit the player to particular keys.

There are times, of course, when the advantages of drop-tuning outweigh these disadvantages. One obvious advantage is that it allows an extension of the range of the instrument. The advantages of drop-tuning are particularly evident when playing chords rather than single note lines, as they allow the player to use the open strings to create open chord voicings that may not be possible in standard tuning. That advantage, however, is much less significant on a bass playing single-note lines than it is on an instrument playing chords.

If it's not obvious by now, I have no issue whatsoever with altered tunings as a general matter, particularly when the player is making an informed choice as to the benefits of one tuning over another. I've played guitar in standard tuning, in drop-D, in DADGAD, in Bruce Palmer modal tuning. I have a Hipshot on one of my 4-string basses, which effectively puts that bass into drop-D tuning. I also have a 5-string, which I use when I need to extend the range below D or when the drop-D creates fingerings that are impractical compared to playing the same line on a 5-string tuned in fourths.

However, in many instances, people use drop-tuning for the wrong reasons, and in ways that limit their growth as a player. For example, how many times in these threads do we see people who think that they have to play in drop C simply because their guitarist plays in drop C, without ever stopping to consider that their guitar is playing chords (or at least fifths) while the bass is playing single lines that may not require or benefit from using a drop tuning rather than a standard tuning? How many times do we see people who confuse the tuning of their instrument with the key that they are playing? Unfortunately, it's often those very same people who are the most defensive and the least receptive to having any reasonable sort of discourse on the topic.

So again, if you think that people are arguing that drop-tuning is "bad because it makes it easier," you are missing the point. There is nothing wrong with making things easier, so long as you recognize that there are often trade-offs for doing so.
 
Febs... I get what you're saying, but you're still arguing your point from a jazz player's perspective. Playing in C because your guitarist plays in C is perfectly valid. Playing a C at 32.70Hz sounds a hell of a lot different than playing a C at 65.41Hz. It just does and you can't possibly argue that it doesn't. Playing a C as an open string also sounds different than playing a fretted C.

For a better-known example, try to play Sad But True by Metallica in a standard tuning and see how lame it would sound without that low D. Playing the octave lower, in metal, really does create "the sound" that a lot of metal bands go for. Whether it's a drop D or drop C or D standard or C standard or A or B or whatever doesn't really matter. We write songs in these tunings to achieve an end and that end is usually centered around creating something dark and heavy.
 
Febs... I get what you're saying, but you're still arguing your point from a jazz player's perspective. Playing in C because your guitarist plays in C is perfectly valid. Playing a C at 32.70Hz sounds a hell of a lot different than playing a C at 65.41Hz. It just does and you can't possibly argue that it doesn't. Playing a C as an open string also sounds different than playing a fretted C.

For a better-known example, try to play Sad But True by Metallica in a standard tuning and see how lame it would sound without that low D. Playing the octave lower, in metal, really does create "the sound" that a lot of metal bands go for. Whether it's a drop D or drop C or D standard or C standard or A or B or whatever doesn't really matter. We write songs in these tunings to achieve an end and that end is usually centered around creating something dark and heavy.
Is he really? or just not from a metal perspective...?
 
Febs... I get what you're saying, but you're still arguing your point from a jazz player's perspective.

No, I'm arguing my point from the perspective of a well-rounded musician who routinely gets hired to play a wide variety of styles and is not limited to a single genre. I get hired to play a lot more than just jazz. I do a lot of theater work, which requires huge versatility. I've played in rock bands. I've played with R&B/Funk bands. I've played in classical orchestras. And yeah, I play in jazz bands.

Playing in C because your guitarist plays in C is perfectly valid.

Obviously. However, tuning to C because your guitarist tunes to C is not the same thing.

Playing a C at 32.70Hz sounds a hell of a lot different than playing a C at 65.41Hz. It just does and you can't possibly argue that it doesn't.

I never argued otherwise.

For a better-known example, try to play Sad But True by Metallica in a standard tuning and see how lame it would sound without that low D.

Playing the octave lower, in metal, really does create "the sound" that a lot of metal bands go for.

I am not disputing that either.

Whether it's a drop D or drop C or D standard or C standard or A or B or whatever doesn't really matter.

And this is where I disagree with you. There is a difference between playing in these various tunings, and I explained some of those differences in detail in my prior post. Please try to understand that when I talk about standard tuning with respect to bass, I am talking about a tuning system where the strings are tuned in fourths. That could mean a 4-string bass tuned EADG, a 5-string bass tuned BEADG, a 6-string bass tuned BEADGC. I am not suggesting in any way that you cannot or should not play a low D or a low C if a song calls for it. I am talking about specifically about whether you use a tuning system where the bass is tuned in fourths, or some other tuning system. I think that if you go back and re-read my prior post with that in mind, you might be better able to understand my point.

Not at all. Just saying that arguing against drop tuning in the context of metal, without having ever written songs for or played in metal bands much less ever really listened to metal is kinda silly.

Where have I "argued against drop tuning in the context of metal"?
 
Awesome Febs! Your reasons and explanations are dead on.


Drop tuning, as done by a majority of young metal players is a way to make playing metal riffs easier, but is a huge liability later on when you try to play any other type of music, not just Jazz.

I don't know how this turned out to be a jazz versus metal thread....it's really about real musical theory versus cheating.

But, I will say that the accusations that jazz musicians are less open minded are just not true.


For example, I like a whole bunch of different styles, too many to list. The only styles I don't really like are metal and hip hop..so that's two out of maybe 100 styles.

Metal players tend to only like metal, for the most part. So who is the more open minded?
 

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