Drop tune - why is it looked down on?

[WarPhalange]

We are not talking about just tuning down to extend the range of your instrument. We are talking about altering the tuning of the strings to match the meathead guitarists in your metal band who like to play power chords with one finger, because a large majority of them lack the musical skills to play the traditional way.

Yes, heaven forbid they make their lives easier. What is "tradition" anyway? Tuning EADGBe is totally arbitrary and was developed to -- get this -- MAKE PLAYING GUITAR EASIER. It's a pretty good compromise between being able to play chords and also playing scales. There is no other reason to tune to EADGBe. The guitar won't break, the strings won't stop vibrating, God won't smite you for it. It's done solely to make life easier.

 

[fractiouslowend]

ok, febs managed to sum up pretty much exactly what i was getting at

i have no problem admittting that drop tuning (although it is my preferred tuning) does have some setbacks, i still write some stuff in standard because of this.

my problem was that some people here are asserting that drop tuning offers no advantage whatsoever, and standard tuning is always better, regardless of what you are playing, and the only reasons they ever give is that drop tuning is cheating somehow.

 

[KwinS]

ok, febs managed to sum up pretty much exactly what i was getting at

i have no problem admittting that drop tuning (although it is my preferred tuning) does have some setbacks, i still write some stuff in standard because of this.

my problem was that some people here are asserting that drop tuning offers no advantage whatsoever, and standard tuning is always better, regardless of what you are playing, and the only reasons they ever give is that drop tuning is cheating somehow.

Exactly!

 

[fractiouslowend]

We are not talking about just tuning down to extend the range of your instrument. We are talking about altering the tuning of the strings to match the meathead guitarists in your metal band who like to play power chords with one finger, because a large majority of them lack the musical skills to play the traditional way.

you keep making this claim that drop tuning means you have less musical ability...
...doesn't learning to play in 2 different tuning methods increase your musical ability and fretboard awareness?

granted, there are some people who use it to chug on powerchords with one finger, but if those guys didn't use drop tuning, they would do the exact same chugging on powerchords with 2 fingers.

 

[lucas vigor]

Let me ask you this: Who has greater musical ability, a guitarist who can play all the scales and all the chords in all keys, or a campfire guitarist who only knows 4 chords (E, G and A and D) and has to use a capo to play a G# chord?

 

[SanDiegoHarry]

you keep making this claim that drop tuning means you have less musical ability...
...doesn't learning to play in 2 different tuning methods increase your musical ability and fretboard awareness?

granted, there are some people who use it to chug on powerchords with one finger, but if those guys didn't use drop tuning, they would do the exact same chugging on powerchords with 2 fingers.

No, I think what he's saying is "Drop tuning to play *metal* mean you have less musical ability..."

And I would generally agree. Every teen I know plays metal; Few teens I know play anything more involved, "Drop tuned" or otherwise.

oh, and I *love* this thread!

 

[KwinS]

Let me ask you this: Who has greater musical ability, a guitarist who can play all the scales and all the chords in all keys, or a campfire guitarist who only knows 4 chords (E, G and A and D) and has to use a capo to play a G# chord?

How is this relevant? Both people can be equally happy making music. They obviously have different goals.

 

[KwinS]

...and why can't a guitarist know all the scales and all the chords in all keys with a drop tuned string?

 

[lucas vigor]

They can, Kwin....but it is very rare in this day and age of "rock star" video games, auto tune and other things that are helping to ruin great music.


And what you and a few other posters on this thread don't get, is that what you are good at is articulating your views on music theory. You get a lot of great talkers and debaters on forums like this. Guys that would be at home on any political talk radio show.

But you are not the norm. The norm can be seen at any guitar center on any given weekend, hacking away at heavy metal chords on drop tuned guitars that are way too f-ing loud. Sorry, but that is the truth and you just don't see it. The average metal artist is most decidedly NOT some techical, musical genius who has gobs of theory under their belts, and just CHOOSES to play drop tuned.

No, the average metal guitarist uses drop tuning because they CANNOT play any other way.

This forum (and other forums) are NOT representative of the average musician at all. There is a whole world out there that never touches these forums. What these forums are good for is arguing and practicing debating. NOT being a great musician. A lot of real smart and educated talkers is what we have here.

Go to guitar center on a sunday and watch and see if it is filled with a bunch of Julliard scholars playing the guitar.

 

[KwinS]

They can, Kwin....but it is very rare in this day and age of "rock star" video games, auto tune and other things that are helping to ruin great music.


And what you and a few other posters on this thread don't get, is that what you are good at is articulating your views on music theory. You get a lot of great talkers and debaters on forums like this. Guys that would be at home on any political talk radio show.

But you are not the norm. The norm can be seen at any guitar center on any given weekend, hacking away at heavy metal chords on drop tuned guitars that are way too f-ing loud. Sorry, but that is the truth and you just don't see it. The average metal artist is most decidedly NOT some techical, musical genius who has gobs of theory under their belts, and just CHOOSES to play drop tuned.

No, the average metal guitarist uses drop tuning because they CANNOT play any other way.

This forum (and other forums) are NOT representative of the average musician at all. There is a whole world out there that never touches these forums. What these forums are good for is arguing and practicing debating. NOT being a great musician. A lot of real smart and educated talkers is what we have here.

Go to guitar center on a sunday and watch and see if it is filled with a bunch of Julliard scholars playing the guitar.

Did you just equate me with a politician?
You can stay over here in your grumpy old man world without me, then.
...and I'm at least as old as you.

Also, my argument was in favor of using whatever tuning fits the music you are playing. I'm not the one who turned this into a "metal these days sucks, and I'm far too mature to play it" type of thread.

 

[EtoG]

You're missing the point. There is nothing wrong with finding the easiest or most efficient way to play something. The nature of the criticism is when people use a shortcut in lieu of learning the fretboard and learning to play the instrument, and by doing so, limit what they can do with the instrument.

Altered tunings have certain advantages, but they also have certain disadvantages. For example, let's say I tune my guitar to Bruce Palmer modal tuning (EEEEBE) instead of EADGBE. Is there anything "wrong" with this tuning? No. It's a great tuning to use if I want to play "Suite: Judy Blue Eyes" or a handful of other songs, because it allows me to play some very rich-sounding, resonant chords in open positions up and down the neck.

But, even though that tuning is fantastic for that particular song and a few other songs, it is not a particularly good tuning for the vast majority of songs throughout history that have ever been played on a guitar. In fact, the very things that make that altered tuning good for certain songs make it very, very bad for others. For example, in that particular tuning, the bottom 4 strings are tuned either in unison or in octaves. This is excellent for droning open chords, but absolutely horrible for playing single-note lines, because single-note lines need to be played up and down a single string rather than across multiple strings.

There are certain advantages to standard tuning. Chief among those advantages, in my view, is the fact that there is a consistent interval of a fourth from string to string. That means that from any one string to the next, the fingerings for any particular interval are going to be the same. Want to play a fifth? No matter what note you start on, anywhere on the neck, a major third will always be one string up and one fret down from your root note. Want to play a fifth? No matter where you start on the neck, it will always be one string up and two frets up from your root note. Another advantage is that the entire chromatic scale is available with position shifts of no more than one fret in either direction (if you play 1234) or two frets in any direction (if you play 124). A one-octave major scale can be played in a closed position with no shifts if you play 1234 and shifts of no more than one fret if you play 124.

Drop-tuning has certain disadvantages compared to standard tuning. The interval between strings is inconsistent, so you lose the symmetry that standard tuning offers. Additional shifts become necessary to play certain lines. Sight-reading and playing by ear can become substantially more difficult. And probably most relevant to this discussion, drop-tuning tends to limit the player to particular keys.

There are times, of course, when the advantages of drop-tuning outweigh these disadvantages. One obvious advantage is that it allows an extension of the range of the instrument. The advantages of drop-tuning are particularly evident when playing chords rather than single note lines, as they allow the player to use the open strings to create open chord voicings that may not be possible in standard tuning. That advantage, however, is much less significant on a bass playing single-note lines than it is on an instrument playing chords.

If it's not obvious by now, I have no issue whatsoever with altered tunings as a general matter, particularly when the player is making an informed choice as to the benefits of one tuning over another. I've played guitar in standard tuning, in drop-D, in DADGAD, in Bruce Palmer modal tuning. I have a Hipshot on one of my 4-string basses, which effectively puts that bass into drop-D tuning. I also have a 5-string, which I use when I need to extend the range below D or when the drop-D creates fingerings that are impractical compared to playing the same line on a 5-string tuned in fourths.

However, in many instances, people use drop-tuning for the wrong reasons, and in ways that limit their growth as a player. For example, how many times in these threads do we see people who think that they have to play in drop C simply because their guitarist plays in drop C, without ever stopping to consider that their guitar is playing chords (or at least fifths) while the bass is playing single lines that may not require or benefit from using a drop tuning rather than a standard tuning? How many times do we see people who confuse the tuning of their instrument with the key that they are playing? Unfortunately, it's often those very same people who are the most defensive and the least receptive to having any reasonable sort of discourse on the topic.

So again, if you think that people are arguing that drop-tuning is "bad because it makes it easier," you are missing the point. There is nothing wrong with making things easier, so long as you recognize that there are often trade-offs for doing so.

After following this thread without posting a reply, I think this has been the best post so far. Whether I agree with it or not, it was a very easy to follow, well thought out, and respectful post. No name calling, no genre bashing, and it was very relevant to the original direction of the thread (which seems to have evolved at this point).

Some people are going to look down upon anything that THEY don't do. Some people will mind their business at just enjoy the music they love making. Regardless, the explanation Febs provided points reasons that are for and against alternate tunings, and why someone might go with one option over the other. Thanks, Febs!

People often let their preference or opinion on a certain subject seem as though it's the only way to do things, whether it's in music, buying cars, or whatever it may be. It happens.

Genres aside, no two players are the same. Whether you jam with your buddies by ear, play in a formal ensemble, or just play along to songs in your collection, we all have different needs as players. Now go practice!

-EtoG

 

[dj150888]

Every teen I know plays metal; Few teens I know play anything more involved, "Drop tuned" or otherwise.

oh, and I *love* this thread!

I wouldn't QUITE agree with you Harry, but I know what you're getting at. I'd say its more that every teen who plays music seems to be focussed on just one genre of music, whichever their favourite is. Metal isn't nearly popular enough to be played by EVERY teen, unless you know very few of them.


Anyways, my two cents on the whole metal vs jazz thing thats developed -
I was lucky enough to get some degree of formal music education, from my years playing brass through childhood and early teen years, and then some more when I learned piano and mandolin (though those were both a lot more recently).

When I started playing bass at around 14 or 15 (I can't remember which), I went a few years playing nothing but metal. I can say wholeheartedly, with no malice towards metal (its still my passion) that those were the slowest years of my development as a musician. I learned very little that would be in any way applicable outside the metal genre. Then, at around 17-18, I started to play mandolin (I've always been a fan of Irish folk), and it got me thinking as a MUSICIAN again, rather than a guy who just plays metal. I branched out my bass playing, I practice a wide range of genres now and I feel myself advancing much more quickly than playing just one.

To be honest, I'd find it impossible to play nothing but metal now. I don't find it satisfying to stick to ANY one genre of music. I'm most definitely not alone on this either. While not everyone in my band has a formal music education, every one of them plays multiple instruments, and multiple genres. I think we're all pretty glad of that. It makes jamming together outside band-time more fun too! I play some jazz (not particularly well, my improv. could do with a lot of work) and I know I'd find playing it boring too, if I played it exclusively. Variety is the spice of life.


To those who are getting offended because they're in metal bands. Its a fact that metal is by no means the most....cerebral kind of music in the world to play. I would honestly say its impossible to become an any way decent all-round musician playing exclusively metal. You won't be perfect if you just play jazz, but theres definitely more musical variation within it than your average metal band. If you want to just be a guy who plays metal, by all means do that! If thats what you find fun, don't let any sucker tell you differently, but in doing that, accept that you probably won't be a well-rounded musician. If that doesn't matter to you, great! But if you accept those things, don't get all offended when someone says so. I really doubt theres a single guy out there whos played nothing but metal who could sit in with a blues band tonight, a motown band tomorrow and a jazz band a few nights later. The guy who just plays jazz has a slightly better chance of managing it.


Me? I'm a bassist in a metal band, I'm not a "metal bassist". I want to be a musican. I can't get that from just one genre.


*Longwinded load of **** finished*

 

[Rockmusician]

I'm not a fan of drop tuning because I think you lose a lot of the dynamics. It just sounds muddy. It also makes if more difficult for the bass to stand out or have clarity. I don't knock anyone who plays in drop tuning though.

 

[DeathFromBelow]

I wouldn't QUITE agree with you Harry, but I know what you're getting at. I'd say its more that every teen who plays music seems to be focussed on just one genre of music, whichever their favourite is. Metal isn't nearly popular enough to be played by EVERY teen, unless you know very few of them.


Anyways, my two cents on the whole metal vs jazz thing thats developed -
I was lucky enough to get some degree of formal music education, from my years playing brass through childhood and early teen years, and then some more when I learned piano and mandolin (though those were both a lot more recently).

When I started playing bass at around 14 or 15 (I can't remember which), I went a few years playing nothing but metal. I can say wholeheartedly, with no malice towards metal (its still my passion) that those were the slowest years of my development as a musician. I learned very little that would be in any way applicable outside the metal genre. Then, at around 17-18, I started to play mandolin (I've always been a fan of Irish folk), and it got me thinking as a MUSICIAN again, rather than a guy who just plays metal. I branched out my bass playing, I practice a wide range of genres now and I feel myself advancing much more quickly than playing just one.

To be honest, I'd find it impossible to play nothing but metal now. I don't find it satisfying to stick to ANY one genre of music. I'm most definitely not alone on this either. While not everyone in my band has a formal music education, every one of them plays multiple instruments, and multiple genres. I think we're all pretty glad of that. It makes jamming together outside band-time more fun too! I play some jazz (not particularly well, my improv. could do with a lot of work) and I know I'd find playing it boring too, if I played it exclusively. Variety is the spice of life.


To those who are getting offended because they're in metal bands. Its a fact that metal is by no means the most....cerebral kind of music in the world to play. I would honestly say its impossible to become an any way decent all-round musician playing exclusively metal. You won't be perfect if you just play jazz, but theres definitely more musical variation within it than your average metal band. If you want to just be a guy who plays metal, by all means do that! If thats what you find fun, don't let any sucker tell you differently, but in doing that, accept that you probably won't be a well-rounded musician. If that doesn't matter to you, great! But if you accept those things, don't get all offended when someone says so. I really doubt theres a single guy out there whos played nothing but metal who could sit in with a blues band tonight, a motown band tomorrow and a jazz band a few nights later. The guy who just plays jazz has a slightly better chance of managing it.


Me? I'm a bassist in a metal band, I'm not a "metal bassist". I want to be a musican. I can't get that from just one genre.


*Longwinded load of **** finished*

If you chose to play only metal as a teen,you have nobody to blaim but yourself,right?Or did metal make you do it? And this thing about "average metal bands"-most bands in any given genre are "average". Try looking beyond the mainstream,you might be surprised...

 

[napawino]

After reading all 22 pages, I can now state without any hesitation, this is the lamest thread I have ever read. Nothing even comes close to it.

 

[dj150888]

If you chose to play only metal as a teen,you have nobody to blaim but yourself,right?Or did metal make you do it? And this thing about "average metal bands"-most bands in any given genre are "average". Try looking beyond the mainstream,you might be surprised...

It seems you missed the point of my post entirely because you got caught up in an, "I must defend metal" rage. Try reading it again after a few deep breaths.

I'm not a fan of mainstream music. I never have been. However, nothing in my post is even remotely concerned with the underground or mainstream nature of music.

As someone whos fairly deeply involved with the underground metal scene in Europe, I can assure you, theres almost as much crap in the underground as there is in the mainstream. Its all about finding the diamonds in the rough.


I still don't understand how any of your reply was even remotely relevant to my post though.

 

[SanDiegoHarry]

...

Me? I'm a bassist in a metal band, I'm not a "metal bassist". I want to be a musican. I can't get that from just one genre.


*Longwinded load of **** finished*

I get that... but here in sunny fun diego, every kid is playing some flavor of metal... and when I was teaching, every kid was obsessed with learning one metal tune or another... which were all painfully simple. So, of course, I force them to learn funk tunes - which converted more than a few young bassists to the funky side...

Oh, and interestingly, none of those kids needed to "drop tune" to play metal. I don't quite recall why...

 

[KwinS]

After reading all 22 pages, I can now state without any hesitation, this is the lamest thread I have ever read. Nothing even comes close to it.

Now that you've posted here, it will surely become the coolest thread ever.

 

[SanDiegoHarry]

Now that you've posted here, it will surely become the coolest thread ever.

LOL

 

[dj150888]

I get that... but here in sunny fun diego, every kid is playing some flavor of metal... and when I was teaching, every kid was obsessed with learning one metal tune or another... which were all painfully simple. So, of course, I force them to learn funk tunes - which converted more than a few young bassists to the funky side...

Oh, and interestingly, none of those kids needed to "drop tune" to play metal. I don't quite recall why...

See, over here all the kids seem to want to play that sort of radio-friendly rock like The Killers and such.

Again, as someone who plays metal and takes great enjoyment from doing so, when I'm giving a lesson, I'd never use metal songs /riffs in my examples or rudiments. I would tend to teach from a more soul/motown/blues type of vibe than funk though.