Drop tune - why is it looked down on?

[onosson]

This thread is not about metal.

The first post doesn't mention metal.

Drop-tunings and alternate tunings are used in many genres aside from metal.

Why is this about metal vs. jazz??

 

[zachoff]

Awesome Febs! Your reasons and explanations are dead on.

Drop tuning, as done by a majority of young metal players is a way to make playing metal riffs easier, but is a huge liability later on when you try to play any other type of music, not just Jazz.

You're assuming someone who plays metal will eventually want play other types of music. Secondly, I've had no problem transitioning between punk rock, indie rock, alternative rock, ska, and metal even with my very limited knowledge of theory. Thirdly, I've been playing bass for 20 years and have no desire to "grow" anymore. I'm happy where I am. Your assumptions do not hold water.

I don't know how this turned out to be a jazz versus metal thread....it's really about real musical theory versus cheating.

Nah, it's about using specific tunings to most efficiently transpose what's in your head to the bass.

But, I will say that the accusations that jazz musicians are less open minded are just not true.

For example, I like a whole bunch of different styles, too many to list. The only styles I don't really like are metal and hip hop..so that's two out of maybe 100 styles.

..and you know this how? I listen to a ton of music. My job involves listening to music and typing. I generally don't like dance music or much pop/rock in general & will admit that FM radio has been pretty dead to me for a few years, but I'd venture to guess that I listen to a wider variety of music on a more regular basis than most everyone on here. My Pandora stations range from Blues to Bluegrass to Jurassic 5 to Country to Metal to New Wave to Classic Rock to Classical to Stanley Clarke to The Clash to Guided by Voices to James Brown and my "mix" station includes a little of everything. My folks were hippies... I grew up listening to records & didn't have cable until I was 15.

Metal players tend to only like metal, for the most part. So who is the more open minded?

Apparently, you assume to know everything about metal and those that listen to it.. You should tell us.

 

[zachoff]

On top of that you admit you don't really like metal yet make statements like this:

Drop tuning, as done by a majority of young metal players is a way to make playing metal riffs easier, but is a huge liability later on when you try to play any other type of music, not just Jazz.

and this:

Metal players tend to only like metal, for the most part.

 

[lucas vigor]

You're assuming someone who plays metal will eventually want play other types of music. Secondly, I've had no problem transitioning between punk rock, indie rock, alternative rock, ska, and metal even with my very limited knowledge of theory. Thirdly, I've been playing bass for 20 years and have no desire to "grow" anymore. I'm happy where I am. Your assumptions do not hold water.



Nah, it's about using specific tunings to most efficiently transpose what's in your head to the bass.



..and you know this how? I listen to a ton of music. My job involves listening to music and typing. I generally don't like dance music or much pop/rock in general & will admit that FM radio has been pretty dead to me for a few years, but I'd venture to guess that I listen to a wider variety of music on a more regular basis than most everyone on here. My Pandora stations range from Blues to Bluegrass to Jurassic 5 to Country to Metal to New Wave to Classic Rock to Classical to Stanley Clarke to The Clash to Guided by Voices to James Brown and my "mix" station includes a little of everything. My folks were hippies... I grew up listening to records & didn't have cable until I was 15.



Apparently, you assume to know everything about metal and those that listen to it.. You should tell us.

You are very much in the minority. I grew up with metal. All my friends were into metal. I was in metal bands. Been there, done that, many times over. I know metal, I know metal fans, and I know the metal mindset. Most of the metal heads I knew were ONLY into metal, and that's it.

Get the video "heavy metal parking lot" and watch it very carefully to fully understand the metal crowd. They were not an open minded bunch of free thinkers. In fact, they all seemed very much alike, to the bands they liked, style of clothing, favorite brand of car or even beer....

Point is, I grew up during the metal years, the heyday of metal. And not one of my friends growing up could dig something like Frank Sinatra, ANY type of jazz or any type of music other then metal.


Oh, of course there are exceptions, and you are probably one of them....but you are not speaking for the majority of them, believe me.


I understand metal. It was basically my first favorite music...well, at least add hard rock in general in there...point is, I outgrew it a long time ago...but I was there when the sound transitioned from english heavy metal bands to the american bands like metallica and megadeth, who are basically the template for most if not all modern metal.

 

[billhilly66]

This theory you speak of doesn't exist in my band. We're not shortcutting anything because we don't have the knowledge or the time to do it the "long" way.

So the only guys who have a handle on theory are mean ol' jazz guys?

Music theory is like the theory of gravity. It doesn't matter what you think about it, you don't float off into space when you walk down the street and there are defined intervals between the notes you play along with a key center whether you choose to recognize them or not.

 

[zachoff]

So the only guys who have a handle on theory are mean ol' jazz guys?

Music theory is like the theory of gravity. It doesn't matter what you think about it, you don't float off into space when you walk down the street and there are defined intervals between the notes you play along with a key center whether you choose to recognize them or not.

Not sure what you're getting at. I was just stating that the guitar player and I don't have any real knowledge of theory and if what we're playing can be theorized then it's purely accidental.

When the only way you know is someone else's shortcut, it's not really a shortcut for you is it?

 

[billhilly66]

Maybe it's a shortcut and maybe it's not. Hard to tell if you can't read the map.

 

[zachoff]

Maybe it's a shortcut and maybe it's not. Hard to tell if you can't read the map.

No need for a map if you're not lost.

 

[Drifta]

No need for a map if you're not lost.

then stay down in plato's cave.

 

[WarPhalange]

You are very much in the minority. I grew up with metal. All my friends were into metal. I was in metal bands. Been there, done that, many times over. I know metal, I know metal fans, and I know the metal mindset. Most of the metal heads I knew were ONLY into metal, and that's it.

Get the video "heavy metal parking lot" and watch it very carefully to fully understand the metal crowd. They were not an open minded bunch of free thinkers. In fact, they all seemed very much alike, to the bands they liked, style of clothing, favorite brand of car or even beer....

Point is, I grew up during the metal years, the heyday of metal. And not one of my friends growing up could dig something like Frank Sinatra, ANY type of jazz or any type of music other then metal.


Oh, of course there are exceptions, and you are probably one of them....but you are not speaking for the majority of them, believe me.


I understand metal. It was basically my first favorite music...well, at least add hard rock in general in there...point is, I outgrew it a long time ago...but I was there when the sound transitioned from english heavy metal bands to the american bands like metallica and megadeth, who are basically the template for most if not all modern metal.

All I got out of this post is that you were close-minded then and you are still close-minded now.

 

[billhilly66]

Close minded=disagrees with you.

 

[Burlington]

Way too many high horses here! FWIW, I play in dropped and standard tunings, and I hope it makes you mad and keeps you up at night!

 

[Febs]

FWIW, I play in dropped and standard tunings, and I hope it makes you mad and keep you up at night!

Nope.

 

[billhilly66]

I'll be up at night alright; playing paying gigs in standard tuning.

 

[KwinS]

You are very much in the minority. I grew up with metal. All my friends were into metal. I was in metal bands. Been there, done that, many times over. I know metal, I know metal fans, and I know the metal mindset. Most of the metal heads I knew were ONLY into metal, and that's it.

Get the video "heavy metal parking lot" and watch it very carefully to fully understand the metal crowd. They were not an open minded bunch of free thinkers. In fact, they all seemed very much alike, to the bands they liked, style of clothing, favorite brand of car or even beer....

Point is, I grew up during the metal years, the heyday of metal. And not one of my friends growing up could dig something like Frank Sinatra, ANY type of jazz or any type of music other then metal.


Oh, of course there are exceptions, and you are probably one of them....but you are not speaking for the majority of them, believe me.


I understand metal. It was basically my first favorite music...well, at least add hard rock in general in there...point is, I outgrew it a long time ago...but I was there when the sound transitioned from english heavy metal bands to the american bands like metallica and megadeth, who are basically the template for most if not all modern metal.

A lot of folks were into metal during that time period. I still like it, even though I chose the classical guitar for my concentration in college way back in the 80's. I still like to play metal, even though I branched out over the years into many other forms of music and instrumentation.

It seems to me that you expect everyone to accept your small part of the universe to be the ultimate truth. You have lumped far too many diverse people into your microcosm. I find the term "outgrew" as you used it to be rather condescending.

 

[Lesfunk]

I had never realized in all my years of playing bass at a professional and more recently at a semi professional level that tuning down was ever looked down upon.
I guess I was wrong?

 

[KwinS]

I had never realized in all my years of playing bass at a professional and more recently at a semi professional level that tuning down was ever looked down upon.
I guess I was wrong?

I'm with you on this. This subject is almost as polarizing as Gene Simmons

 

[lucas vigor]

We are not talking about just tuning down to extend the range of your instrument. We are talking about altering the tuning of the strings to match the meathead guitarists in your metal band who like to play power chords with one finger, because a large majority of them lack the musical skills to play the traditional way.

 

[KwinS]

There is a lot of fun to be had with downtuning. Different melodic and chordal approaches, contrasting between heavy and crispy tones and all.

Strangely, people who call on metalheads for doing it never tell Michael Manring or Adrian Belew how wrong they are.

I think this deserves to be posted again.

 

[WarPhalange]

Close minded=disagrees with you.

Close minded = "You should be able to play a 4-string bass with flat wounds with 2 fingers before you do anything else" + "I used to like metal and nothing else." + "You have to play the traditional way or else you are doing it wrong"