Drop Tunings on a 4 string bass - The correct way

[BDL1991]

A bass usually plays one note at a time. Plus as pointed out, the high tension of bass strings leads to changes in neck bow with changes in string tension much more so than a guitar. And even worse the low frequencies of the strings makes them operate just barely into the region of decent tone so tuning down needs heavier strings to maintain tone (as mentioned).

And it gets still worse. Since a bass is tuned across the range in 4ths (guitars are not. That "b" string messes it all up) it allows you to move the patterns of scales etc. both up and down the neck as well as from side to side from string to string. Once you drop-tune a string (lowest) all that nice pattern shifting ability is gone. You have to learn a new scale (pattern) for each key etc. if a switch to another string is needed to get range.

The bottom line is that "drop-tuning" or even lowered standard tuning makes little sense for a bass. And that is especially true since there are now "real"* basses that can purchased that solve all these problems at once!

* all "real" basses have 5 or more strings.

With a 5 or 6 string bass, you have all the range you need and even better it's concentrated at one spot in the neck. You don't have to detune to get extended range so neck tension does not change so neck adjustments are not needed. And since strings retain original tension they don't have to be increased in gauge to maintain tone.

What the resistance is to a 5 or 6 string bass I'll never understand. Hey, if you are playing music that doesn't need the extra range then a 4 is all you need and more power to ya. But once you need that range, guitarist-style detuning is a crazy way to get it. So lets give Pablomigraine a big round of applause for coming to his senses in time with a Lakland DJ5. (An excellent choice by the way!)

bands that play in drop tunings use open strings alot of the time, playing an open C is alot easier than fretting the 1st fret on the B then jumping to 5 on the A, it's wasted energy and movement hense why alot of bassists drop tune and if they follow the guitarist alot of the time the guitarist uses patterns that are harder to play in standard tunings

 

[Korladis]

I'm like you. I just don't like the way 5 strings feel. What brand of strings do you use?

D'Addario XL's. For standard EADG tuning I use .100's, and for my BEAD tuned bass I use whatever the 5 string equivalent set for that is.

 

[pablomigraine]

This was a great discussion of drop tuning. HOWEVER, left unsaid were the negative reasons for doing this. First of all is it comes from the (negative) influence of guitarists! Let me say that there ARE valid reasons for drop-tunings, various standard tunings, and even open tunings on a guitar. A guitar is a totally different instrument where usually multiple strings (chords) are played at once. Variations in tunings can be a big help with difficult situations.

Typically these reasons do not apply to a bass. A bass usually plays one note at a time. Plus as pointed out, the high tension of bass strings leads to changes in neck bow with changes in string tension much more so than a guitar. And even worse the low frequencies of the strings makes them operate just barely into the region of decent tone so tuning down needs heavier strings to maintain tone (as mentioned).

And it gets still worse. Since a bass is tuned across the range in 4ths (guitars are not. That "b" string messes it all up) it allows you to move the patterns of scales etc. both up and down the neck as well as from side to side from string to string. Once you drop-tune a string (lowest) all that nice pattern shifting ability is gone. You have to learn a new scale (pattern) for each key etc. if a switch to another string is needed to get range.

The bottom line is that "drop-tuning" or even lowered standard tuning makes little sense for a bass. And that is especially true since there are now "real"* basses that can purchased that solve all these problems at once!

* all "real" basses have 5 or more strings.

With a 5 or 6 string bass, you have all the range you need and even better it's concentrated at one spot in the neck. You don't have to detune to get extended range so neck tension does not change so neck adjustments are not needed. And since strings retain original tension they don't have to be increased in gauge to maintain tone.

What the resistance is to a 5 or 6 string bass I'll never understand. Hey, if you are playing music that doesn't need the extra range then a 4 is all you need and more power to ya. But once you need that range, guitarist-style detuning is a crazy way to get it. So lets give Pablomigraine a big round of applause for coming to his senses in time with a Lakland DJ5. (An excellent choice by the way!)

These are some good points. Let take your example of a 5 string bass and compare dropped to standard tunings. Lets say the band you play with tunes to Drop B. You have the option of tuning to standard (B E A D G) or matching the guitar players at Drop B (B F# B E A). There are pros and cons to each. Tuning to standard will add some difficulty when learning by sight as you will need to transpose everything the guitarists are playing. If you have good enough pitch to learn by ear (which I do not) then this will be less of a problem. If your guitarists tend to stay in scale, and dont change modes or scales much in one song.... then your job will be a little easier.... but my experience is that most bands who employ these types of tunings tend to jump around a bit on both counts...

The downsides of tuning to drop b on your fiver to match your guitarists are all the problems this thread illustrates solutions to....


Its all about choice....

 

[Master-Blaster]

what do you think about uptunning a 5-string to C Standard?

Should I get lighter strings? it's just a half step up
I'm using .120, .095, .075, .060 and .040 on my Ibanez SR405, and I need the open C because I play in a (hardcore) metal band, with lots of fast riffs (my guitarist uses drop C tunning)

 

[pablomigraine]

what do you think about uptunning a 5-string to C Standard?

Should I get lighter strings? it's just a half step up
I'm using .120, .095, .075, .060 and .040 on my Ibanez SR405, and I need the open C because I play in a (hardcore) metal band, with lots of fast riffs (my guitarist uses drop C tunning)

C Standard should be no problem at all with those strings.

 

[Korladis]

I can't understand people Who play in standard D or E-flat and use a standard gauge set on a "34" neck.
We used to play in standard E with daddario xl 10-46 on guitars and xl 45-105 set on bass. Nice and tight and a very clean sound i terms of pitch. We have played in e-flat using the same gauge and the sound is not as good. Yes it is fatter but not tight and less clean. Sometimes its sound less on pitch....
Seems like a set of 50-110 is better for e-flat for bass if you want any punch.
For any drop tuning (just the low E) the daddario balanced tension sets have a much thicker low E than other regular sets. In a regular set the low E always have a lot less tension.
For low 5 string tunings like Bb or A standard instead of B I feel a fanned fret bass is the way to go.

Odd thread to revive just to post this.

On E standard I use 40-100. Also XLs.

My other bass is tuned BEAD. 130, 100, 80, 60. Fanned frets are an interesting idea, but I find unnecessary. My BEAD basses are 34" and 33.25" scale and sound great, balanced between strings.

 

[Anders Barfod]

Odd thread to revive just to post this.

On E standard I use 40-100. Also XLs.

My other bass is tuned BEAD. 130, 100, 80, 60. Fanned frets are an interesting idea, but I find unnecessary. My BEAD basses are 34" and 33.25" scale and sound great, balanced between strings.

I deleted my post,,

But pretty impressive that you can get a decent B string sound on a 33.25" scale neck,, Maybe it not only scale lenght but also string angle over the nut and bridge, I think the B-string or dropped D (e string) needs a little downward push over those points.
What amp and cab do you run with you B-string?

My bassplayer has a nice Lakland 5 string jazz bass 35" scale with a really tight strong B string with a 135 string. But detuned to Bb-(D#-G#-C#-F#) it become a bit floppy for his and my taste.

If you look at Daddarios page over a set of 45-65-85-105-135 XL string set you will see the string tension starting to drop of a lot on the low E and even more on the low B. A Piano use different scale lenghts for low notes vs high notes, and that is the idea of fanned frets.. Having a more balanced string tension from high to low keeping the low notes tight and the high notes from becoming to bright. When you start extend the classic E-A-D-G range up and down, a slight multiscale thing helps balance..

 

[Korladis]

I deleted my post,,

But pretty impressive that you can get a decent B string sound on a 33.25" scale neck,, Maybe it not only scale lenght but also string angle over the nut and bridge, I think the B-string or dropped D (e string) needs a little downward push over those points.
What amp and cab do you run with you B-string?

My bassplayer has a nice Lakland 5 string jazz bass 35" scale with a really tight strong B string with a 135 string. But detuned to Bb-(D#-G#-C#-F#) it become a bit floppy for his and my taste.

If you look at Daddarios page over a set of 45-65-85-105-135 XL string set you will see the string tension starting to drop of a lot on the low E and even more on the low B. A Piano use different scale lenghts for low notes vs high notes, and that is the idea of fanned frets.. Having a more balanced string tension from high to low keeping the low notes tight and the high notes from becoming to bright. When you start extend the classic E-A-D-G range up and down, a slight multiscale thing helps balance..

I actually think people attribute way too much importance to scale length on this forum. There's a whole attitude on here that you have to have an extended scale length for low strings to sound good, and in my experience, it just doesn't hold up. One of my BEAD basses is a cheapo Peavey that I've heavily modified. Another is a modified Epiphone T-bird (one of the neck through ones, though). Those are both 34" scale. The 33.25" scale one is a Rickenbacker 4003S.

Yes, pianos have different length strings for low and high notes, but we don't play piano. I don't expect the B to sound identical to the E, as, after all, on an EADG tuned bass, the 5th fret E doesn't sound exactly like the open A, either. But the sound is pretty balanced, around the same sustain and bite for all strings.

Using low tuned Rickenbackers and traditional basses is pretty common in my scene. Though finding the right strings is a must. I like the XLs a lot. Once I have a bass set up for a tuning, I don't change it to a different tuning without another setup.

I'm running through a Mesa/Boogie D-180, though friday night's gig I used a friend's SVT-CL, through a Sunn 2000S 2x15. It's the same rig I use with my EADG tuned bass.

 

[KB5]

Wound bass strings from .023 to .182 are available from Kalium. Very popular with multi-scale players and metal heads. \m/

Link Removed

 

[Anders Barfod]

Once I have a bass set up for a tuning, I don't change it to a different tuning without another setup.

I'm running through a Mesa/Boogie D-180, though friday night's gig I used a friend's SVT-CL, through a Sunn 2000S 2x15. It's the same rig I use with my EADG tuned bass.[/QUOTE]

What changes do you do to the setup of your bass when using a lower tuning?

Nice rig by the way.. A nice classic mesa boogie all tube map with 180W of clean tube power into that massive 2000s cab with two heavy 15" JBLs.. How much does that cab weigh.. It's a beast..

 

[Korladis]

What changes do you do to the setup of your bass when using a lower tuning?

Nice rig by the way.. A nice classic mesa boogie all tube map with 180W of clean tube power into that massive 2000s cab with two heavy 15" JBLs.. How much does that cab weigh.. It's a beast..

Going from EADG to BEAD can require a truss rod adjustment, since BEAD is usually less tension than EADG. Intonation has to be adjusted, and depending on the bridge being used, the main problem is that sometimes there isn't enough adjustment room to get the B string intonated right, (though if this is the case, there are some modifications that can be made to some bridges to address this). String height sometimes needs to be adjusted, too. The BadassII bridge on my Peavey needed to be modified (spring on the lowest intonation adjustment screw shortened, and hole for the string bored out to accept the 130 gauge B), but the 4003S required no modifications, just an intonation adjustment.

The Mesa is, yes, rated 180 watts clean, but I never play it that way. I have it set for overdrive basically all the time, in varying amounts.

The cab is much lighter than it used to be, actually, as I replaced the EVs that I had in there (not the original drivers that would have gone with a 2000S, which, yes, would have been JBLs) with Faital 15PR400s, which can take more power and more low end. As a bonus, since the new drivers are neo, the cab is actually lighter than Orange 4x12 one of my guitarists uses.