• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

DRUGS & BOOZE

#121
Not to argue with you. I'm just quoting what I've read.

BuckoSama said:
Actually, I'm working in Fairfield, Iowa, the seat of the TM movement in the US... The Beatles and Maharishi had their falling out because of their drug use. This would tell me that they weren't over it.
Click to expand...
According to McCartney they dropped the Maharishi because he was hitting on Mia Farrow's sister, Prudence. Lennon wrote "Sexy Sadie" on the White Album about this incident. John didn't think it was appropriate for a Transcended One to be messin' with the customers. I don't know - wasn't there. But it is on the Anthology DVD in an interview with George and Paul. And no, I don't think they stopped their pot smoking -- except George.

Also, I never meant to say that they or Pink Floyd were habitual and constant users of LSD, but that a lot of their very best music was inspired by trips they had taken. It certainly doesn't help you play any better, but it does put ideas in your head that are weird and twisted and can be executed later.
Click to expand...
I'm just quoting Roger Waters. "Saucerful" is a really a good book. Can buy it cheap used out of Amazon.

I agree. I used to play in altered states in high school in a steady gigging band in the 70s.
I quit playing high in the mid 80s when I started playing in original bands. No big.
 
#122
As far as drugs and booze go, I haven't touched any in almost 8 years and I play 100% better now that I don't touch the stuff. I used to always have a shot of JD before we went on just to loosen up and every set in between, then by the 3rd set I'd be hunt'n for a big fat sack of the usual powders. It got to the point where my performance was so bad that fellow musicians quit wanting to play with me.:scowl: They'd say, "Your a great talent, but we're tired of all your bu!!sh!t!!"; it got to be very sad.:rollno:

Today my life is drug and alcohol free, I have to turn down gigs because I'm in demand that much today.:) I have one main band that I play with and the guitar player drinks to the point of a real good buzz and his playing sounds like it. It really sucks because the drummer and I are playing are arse's off and we have a guitar player who's making all kinds of mistakes when he plays, but he thinks he sounds good.:rolleyes: He is very talented, but if your were to hear him on a live recording you'd think differently.

Having a shot or a couple of drinks throughout the night is one thing, but if you've got to blow greenbud, throw down to the point where your stumblin around, club owners, managers of large venues, casino's who pay big bucks don't put up with that sh!t, they'll fire your arse. It's immature and irresponsible. Just my $.02.;)
 
#123
BuckoSama said:
As far as I'm concerned, this really comes down to the overall goals of the band. Are you looking to perfectly execute technical passages, or to get through them for structural purposes and then blow freakin' minds with spacey psychedelic improv. :bassist: I sincerely believe that the exploratory side of music is much more accessible when sufficiently "chilled out." Technical passages may become less accurate, but it's all about priorities.

There's a quote by (I think!) Charles Mingus (that I can't locate now) that says something like, "Every musician, when he has reached sufficient facility, must choose whether to be an artist or a transcriptionist."
Click to expand...

I totally hear what you're saying about form vs. content, execution vs. innovation, etc. And as it relates to substances, I once held a very similar view, as I've also done my fair share of dropping, snorting and smoking (but no shooting) - not to mention more than few boozey, bluesy lost nights... :eek:

It's just that I really recognize this to be a bogus argument, or at least a false dichotomy - as if one could not be wildly creative and highly experimental without being stoned, as if being stone-cold sober - and thus able to execute cleanly and precisely - automatically renders one less "edgy" or "out there" from a creative standpoint. This is an engaging and entertaining bit of stoner myth.

Fact is, to be a good musician - and especially a good artist - you need both strong technical chops and inspiration. A stoned musician may or may not receive inspiration as a result of being high. But rarely if ever are his chops going to improve because of it.

A clean, non-stoned musician may very well receive inspiration in spite of being straight and sober (I'll give ya that one). But rarely if ever will his chops be compromised because of it.

MM
 
#126
ok, a long and interesting thread. i am gonna jump in with tZer (he seems so alone...). i wouldn't tell others what to do before a gig if it were not causing a problem. it has not been my experience that any band (or bandmate) that does any kind of drug is doomed to failure. i have played with several powder-using folks who did end up causing lots o' trouble, and none who could handle it long term. pot has never destroyed a band i've been in. alcohol has been 50 - 50. i think one of the issues here is that people's tolerances and experiences are different. it seems with alcohol people in western culture see that you can use a little, or a lot, or ruin your life. my experience (not personal) with the powders is that it always goes to "ruin your life" or get sober. with pot, my experience is that can be maintained long term, like alcohol, but most people see it as all or nothing.

what i think i see is that when someone cleans up (or generally goes thru a major life change) they look at those who exhibit their old behavior and are tempted to be judgmental. i quit tobacco many years ago, it was one of the smartest (and hardest) things i did. i don't look at smokers as weak or lame though. just different decisions and not my problem. i could not play in a band with a smoker if they were smoking in the practice space, but that is my problem, not theirs. and i wouldn't say, "quit the habit or the band, your choice!" i would maturely work it out or i would leave. no big deal. no drama.

personally, i played loud gtr in jam bands for 15-20 years. often herbally enhanced. i did not learn my skills high. i did not practice my technique high. i did find that i could utilize those skills better (improv, communication, hearing the groove) high. i never had a problem remembering arrangements, but some of the people i played with did. when i switched to bass, i had a long slow learning curve. i had always acknowledged that i played lead cause it was the easiest thing to do in a rock band. well, bass is more challenging. i have played high and found in some situations that i could hear what to play better that way. however, a few months ago i had a gig where my confidence fell apart due to that dreaded weed. and, well, that was it for me and high-performance. and yes, i can groove without it. it just took some getting used to. my rock band does find though, that totally straight gigs feel stuffy. a little alcohol loosens us up. there is a balance between keeping the arrangements clear and feeling a little loose. its all about dosage (pun intended?!?!?!?). IMHO, use does not always equal abuse.

the arguments are always easier to make when carried to extremes; it is the gray area of the middle ground that is hard to sort out. maybe that is why some people prefer to argue in blanket statements.

last thing i wanna write: +1,000 to buckosama! you mentioned iowa twice in one thread! i don't think that's ever been done before!!
 
#127
I never had to "clean up." I just stopped drinking over 25 years ago. I'm not a friend of Bill W. I've seen alcohol ruin many lives, including those of past band members. In the course of their ruin, they've taken little pieces of the rest of us. I've just made a decision that that crap has no place in my life, hence my rule. It's not that I want to tell others what to do or not do before a gig. They can drink or not drink. If they choose drink and they get drunk, then their choice is to not be in the band. It's just my policy not to tolerate drunks in the band.

I realize that my intransigence is not popular with everybody here, but I can guarantee you that if you had the same policy, your band would be better and your life would be better.
 
#128
ReidK said:
"Any musician who says he is playing better on tea, the needle, or when he is juiced, is a plain, straight liar. When I get too much to drink I can't even finger well, let alone play decent ideas. And, in the days when I was on the stuff, I may have thought I was playing better, but listening to some of the records now, I know I wasn't. Some of these smart kids who think you have to be completely knocked out to be a good hornman are just plain crazy. It isn't true. I know, believe me."

Charlie Parker, 1949 (and he knew the truth of this all too well)

Now I'm waiting for the first "Who's Charlie Parker?"...
Click to expand...

FREAKING AWESOME
tell ya what...when i get in an argument w/ my gf next time, i'lll ask you to give me charlie parker's advice, since i'm sure he had his share of gf's and, since everything in this life is the same, he'll know exactly what is wrong and how to fix it
or, i'll do what i do, and that's know what's wrong in my situation (or how much is enough/too much) and go from there...again, it's all dependant on the person/people
you actually sound like a bible beater to me, thinking there's one set of rules and that's it
have fun at your charlie parker church
oh yea, and there are some people that swear drugs/alcohol will ruin your life
funny, b/c i DO know some people that got have done them and haven't amounted to ****...but again, i do know some people that drink alot, do coke about once a week, yet have careers that most would die for, own a house, have kids, and are very sucessful.....
this shows that there is no right/wrong way for everyone...it depends on the individual...
the booze/drugs can be like any addiction, be it sex, porno, video games, the internet, smoking cigs, spending money...it's all about know the limits and how it affects (or effects, i'm not too interested in the proper word right now)...that's like saying "don't nail your gf right b4 a rehearsal, b/c that's all you'll think about"
for some, maybe
for most, no
 
#129
When this subject is distilled down to a specific band with specific policies in place it becomes very simple - rules are rules, regardless of their philosophical value. I am a huge fan of setting boundaries to help ensure predictable and favorable results - like Munjibunga.

By the way, thanks for the support, EBodious. I was feeling a little lonely here...

As for a guarantee that my band would be better following his band's policy, I'll just err on the side of maybe. While I agree that personally I am more capable of playing my instrument proficiently and being more mentally alert when I am sober, I am not so sure that insisting everyone else in my band follow such a rule would necessarily result in a "better band". I am also NOT saying it wouldn't.

Also, since my livelihood is not provided by my band it's far easier for me to have a much more liberal idea about how I and my band mates should behave when we are together doing our thing. It may very well be a different story if mortgages and medical bills hinged on the band's ability to generate revenue. I still don't know if I'd make a policy that outright bans buzzes during play, but I am rather positive that it'd be damn clear that everyone must be able to deliver their end of the deal or find another deal.
 
#130
My drummer and guitarist love to get stoned before the show. I'll usually have a couple beers, and the frontman/singer stays sober to keep us all in line. This setup works well for us because the drummer and guitarist sound great when they're stoned, and I develop more "stank" (lead singer's word) as I get more drunk, to a point. I, however, can't play stoned because I get clumsy fingers. The drummer doesn't like to drink before or during shows because the lights make him sweat and he loses all his sticks. I'm pretty sure the guitar player could give a great performance tripping ***** if he wanted.

My point is that there should be no rules in music. If you give a great performance stoned, go for it. Have someone else evaluate that for you, though. If you give a crappy performance stoned, don't smoke before the show. That's all.
 
#131
yeah i use drugs, (dont forget alcohol is a drug, like asprin) the BIG factor is wether you can function (perform)on your favorite drugs. wes from puddle of mud was so drunk one night you could not tell what he was saying between songs, maybe one word out of 5. looked like he was gonna fall over too. but the song started, and holy sheet, he sounded just like the record, pitch and timing. my hair was standing on end. i couldent believe it. we felt bad cuz they didnt haqve any booze in thier dressing room(wonder why)and wes hung out in ours and drank all day,lol. moral of my story: either you can handle it, or you cannot. the biggest problem comes when you believe you can handle it, and other people do not agree .. a recording will tell the truth the next day... johnny a
 
#133
popcorn.gif
 
#135
Munjibunga said:
I realize that my intransigence is not popular with everybody here, but I can guarantee you that if you had the same policy, your band would be better and your life would be better.
Click to expand...

thanks for teaching me the new word; i can't wait to use it on my kids.

so, if there is a cash prize (or a sweet bass) in your guarantee, draw up the contract, i'll take the challenge! :)
 
#136
tZer said:
1) By the way, thanks for the support, EBodious. I was feeling a little lonely here...

2) As for a guarantee that my band would be better following his band's policy, I'll just err on the side of maybe. While I agree that personally I am more capable of playing my instrument proficiently and being more mentally alert when I am sober, I am not so sure that insisting everyone else in my band follow such a rule would necessarily result in a "better band". I am also NOT saying it wouldn't.

3) Also, since my livelihood is not provided by my band it's far easier for me to have a much more liberal idea about how I and my band mates should behave when we are together doing our thing. It may very well be a different story if mortgages and medical bills hinged on the band's ability to generate revenue. I still don't know if I'd make a policy that outright bans buzzes during play, but I am rather positive that it'd be damn clear that everyone must be able to deliver their end of the deal or find another deal.
Click to expand...

1)no problem, you made good points all along. and how could i not support someone with the crazy, bad-trip avatar?!?

2)dude, you sound like you are running for office.

3)here i think you have nailed it again. not only is there use vs. abuse in this discussion, but also professionalism by choice or necessity. i too am priviledged to enjoy playing music without depending on it for financial security. i can act pro, but i don't have to be pro. i am sure those pressures would effect my decision making too (like practicing for 6 hrs a day!).
 
#139
invader3k said:
Yeah, and look how that turned out for him! Woooo! Rock & Roll!!! :bassist: :hyper:
Click to expand...

you're right, it turned out badly...that in mind, i forbid my band to eat mcdonald's b/c i know people who have died early due to heart attacks
no soda, either, since the caffeine is just as addicting as most illlegal drugs
it can keep you up too late, and ruin a show the next day
also, no driving by anyone in my band, since people die in car accidents all the time
getting out in the sun? DEFINITE no-no...won't want a band member to get skin cancer and leave the rest of the band to fend for a new member
and no playing the bass or guitars for band members, since it can lead to back problems or carpel tunnel syndrome
so anyone in my band is only allowed to sit around the house and do nothing
shoot, what if an asteroid were to fall on our house...looks like we have to retreat to underground shelters
what a blast this band is!!
oh yea, just cuz something bad happens to one person doesn't mean it'll happen to everyone else who uses/follows the same path
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back