DRUGS & BOOZE

[tZer]

I particularly like the relativistic opinions expressed, e.g. "It's not your place to decide what's right or wrong for others, only you"

This is correct, to a point. If you get inebriated / high at a gig / rehearsal, there is a good probability that you will drive home afterwards. Having drunken / high individuals behind the wheels of motor vehicles & others personal safety might be at risk is EXACTLY when a relativistic opinion does not work. You (in the general sense) might have played the best show of your life, but none of that matters if an accident does occur. When your own behavior affects another person or people, relativistic morality doesn't hold up too well, and thankfully, we have laws and systems to enforce them.

That said, I enjoy a couple of beers while playing, but not enough to impair my driving. I have far too much to lose to get a DUI or harm someone else (my job, all my money, my life, etc.), so it isn't worth it.

imp

But you see, each time someone tries to make their absolute opinion about another's behavior relevant, they always insert "facts not in evidence".

For example, "If you get inebriated / high at a gig / rehearsal, there is a good probability that you will drive home afterwards."

IF frogs had wings, they wouldn't bump their butts...

But those frogs don't have wings. Stop putting wings on frogs, fellows.

Use of booze and drugs affects people differently. Some who may choose to use may also choose to have designated drivers because they CAN perform like circus acrobats while under the influence, but know that they should not drive. It is NOT a forgone conclusion that because someone gets wasted they are also going to drive.

Use of drugs/booze/getting wasted = the frog.

Driving under the influence = the wings. We were talking about the frog - you added the wings.

A person who gets behind the wheel impaired has made ONE bad choice. The bad choice wasn't getting impaired, it was getting behind the wheel.

It's really easy to take a comment like "Booze is bad" and make it "true" by inserting all sorts of 'out of bounds' hypothetical comments. On it's face, use of drugs and booze is what it is... use of drugs and booze. What comes next varies from user to user.

 

[martyman5000]

From what I've seen most of the young intelligent bands have a beer or two and thats it. Drungs and booze cost money and if you are a struggling band then you can't afford that stuff. I rarely smell pot anymore and if you become some Meth head I doubt you can play an instrument.

 

[bassfrenzie]

for the original poster (if he made it this far):

to me the question is do your singer and guitarist look like drunk jackasses to the audience? Many of the things that mistakes bug you can go unnoticed to the average audience. Although in the singers case, that's probably getting noticed.

To me it's about having enough respect for the audience to perform well, and moderating your intake to allow that.

Beyond the audience at practice/rehearsal, my experience has been that sober practice/rehearsal gets you to your musical goals effectively while non-sober practice/rehearsal tend to be aimless fun.

Yeah, there are very obvious gaffs that are made usually around the 3rd or 4th sets.

Ya know, they are excellent players & good guys. We are all mates.

If it was to the point that gigs were in danger of being canceled it would be scary, but that's not the case. It just bugs me that the gaffs are completely unnecessary.

One thing's for sure - there are many opinions on the subject...a lot depends on your headspace. interesting.

AS for myself, I grew out of playing stoned, never could play drunk anyway.

I can savor the moment more and appreciate the cooking sober. I'll stick to enjoying a Bud later.

 

[bassfrenzie]

"The bad choice wasn't getting impaired, it was getting behind the wheel."

In your opinion.

Right?

 

[tZer]

If it was to the point that gigs were in danger of being canceled it would be scary, but that's not the case. It just bugs me that the gaffs are completely unnecessary.

The best approach is to deal directly with the issue - the gaffs. Again, it may be the booze and drugs - it may just be that they are not giving it their best effort - but it's ultimately up to them to figure out how to do their gigs gaff-free.

If you approach them and say "I think you're doing too much drinking" - that's taken more as a judgment.

If you approach them and say, "Man, all the gaffs... What's up? Can't we get through a show without all the silly mistakes?" It puts it on them to deliver a gaff-free show. If they do that, then they've done what needs to be done. HOW they do that is on them.

 

[tZer]

"The bad choice wasn't getting impaired, it was getting behind the wheel."

In your opinion.

Right?

Sure... Your point?

 

[rekesbass]

To the O.P. I'm in this same situation..I've been playin with the same guys for 20+ years.The last 3 or 4 have been hell for me and my drummer(we're a trio)..Our band leader\guitplyr\singer(who the band is named after)is a drunk(I won't use the term alcoholic because he don't go to meetings he just keeps drinkin)..Well a few years back we're doing a pretty high profile annual charity gig and he showed up hammered,made a complete ass of himself(I'm talkin can't stand up drunk).Somehow we get through the gig but loose it .(I was fit to be tied that night) the next day I bring it up,he's all apologetic and asking me not to quit. I accept,forgive,but do not forget..fast forward a year or so,it happens again..apologies all around,it's all water under the bridge(again,I don't forget and anger starts to build)in the meantime there are a few instances(like every other gig) where it happens and me being the patient,forgiving person I am,I don't say anything(but I don't forget,anger grows more)...fast forward to about a year ago..guess what happens?,guess who turns the other cheek? This time it going to be different he says,I'll keep myself under house arrest on gig days.(I'm talkin about a 43 yr. old man who needs a babysitter to keep him from drinking...pathetic)....well that did'nt work for long which leads me to Memorial Day weekend. We do a gig in a resort town and we get all 3 summertime holiday weekends(Memorial day,July 4,Labor day),guess who shows up hammered? it was so bad people left (long time fans who make a point to come out on those holiday weekends to see him) the bar owner shut us down after the first set(anger boils over).Drummer and myself have a talk with the bar owner and she is totally cool with us and knows that it is not us,and she was even nice enough to still pay us. Somehow he managed to keep the other gigs. Monday comes around,I break the news,this time he knows I'm serious,I'M DONE, my last gig with this band will be Labor day weekend(I will honor my commitments)We played there again on the 21st of June.he's SOBER and stays that way all night and it was an awsome gig,patrons loved it,bar owner loves us again. he starts asking me to stay and I explained to him,(and I've said it to him before) the disrespect he showing us, his bandmates and FRIENDS of 20+ years who stand behind him EVERY SINGLE WEEKEND is not cool,it's like a kick in the nuts.The drummer and I never know which guy will show up at the gig,although he assures us time and time again that it will not happen again.sorry buddy,too late. Actions speak way louder than words..It took 20 years for him to realize that he DOES NOT play or sing better drunk, and anyone who thinks they can is dillusional(sp?)..really they are.. I'm no saint,I like my pint of Guinness and a fatty but,being wasted on a gig is unacceptable...My point is,confront it NOW or shut up and deal with it. If they won't\can't change then move on..Sorry about the long rant but,in reality there is not enough time in a day or server space for me to go into detail on this subject

 

[Mystic Michael]

Our band leader\guitplyr\singer(who the band is named after)is a drunk(I won't use the term alcoholic because he don't go to meetings he just keeps drinkin)...

Rekesbass, just because your guitarist doesn't attend (AA?) meetings, doesn't mean he's not an alcoholic. He could very well be an alcoholic in denial (which is pretty typical alcoholic behavior anyway).

Based on your description of his behavior, it sounds like he certainly needs help. All the recriminations in the world are not going to help. Treatment is what will help. He needs to be persuaded to seek professional care. The sooner, the better...

MM

 

[rekesbass]

Rekesbass, just because your guitarist doesn't attend (AA?) meetings, doesn't mean he's not an alcoholic. He could very well be an alcoholic in denial (which is pretty typical alcoholic behavior anyway).

Based on your description of his behavior, it sounds like he certainly needs help. All the recriminations in the world are not going to help. Treatment is what will help. He needs to be persuaded to seek professional care. The sooner, the better...

MM

I totally understand what your saying,he is an alcoholic..I know it,he knows it...he will not seek help,that makes him a drunk.. alcoholics go to meetings,drunks go to the bar..a drunk is an alcoholic that will not seek help..

 

[david fitch]

I used to play in a busy working band back in the early 90's. All pro's and gigging four to five nights a week. Not everybody in this five member band stayed sober but always kept themselfs in control,that is all but one. This fool thought he was so cool and in demand he could do whatever he wanted at a gig and did. One night he got so drunk he started yelling at everybody in the club over the P.A. telling them what a bunch of a-holes they are and are nothing more than nine to five slaves. He was booted from the band that night and has never done a gig messed up after that night. That fool was me.

 

[twistdpair]

My motto is stay 2 drinks behind the audience. With the audiences we play to I usually have a beer before we start, and 2 during each set. I load up with a big meal before every show because:

1) The drinks don't slam me.
2) I jump around like a monkey and need the carbs.

The bottom line: As long as you can pull off your parts and don't act like a douche, it's ALL GOOD.

 

[Munjibunga]

We sure have an apologist for the drunks in tZer. I get around all this rhetoric by sticking with my very simple position. Get loaded or drunk at a gig and you're fired. There's no need for any philosophical discussion, it's just a natural fact. I am completely done with explanations and apologies. If I'm in a band, there are no stoners or drunks in it.

 

[timzrage]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Guess it sucks to be in your band! LOL I'm just kidding.
I don't want to get philisophical with you but I know what a "drunk" is, but is a "stoner" anyone who smokes pot?

 

[BuckoSama]

"That said, using substances in order to compensate for some perceived personal deficiency is in fact a form of dysfunctional behavior - and I know from experience about that too. It's not just my opinion. It's well-established, well-documented, psychotherapeutic common knowledge."

Oh come on. Who ever heard of an interesting song coming from a happy person? We'd be inundated with "Cups and Cakes" ripoffs. Depression and anxiety should be a prerequisite.

I'm not going to tout the benefits of alcohol, because in my experience, it just makes me sloppy. What I have to say applies mostly to weed.

As far as I'm concerned, this really comes down to the overall goals of the band. Are you looking to perfectly execute technical passages, or to get through them for structural purposes and then blow freakin' minds with spacey psychedelic improv. I sincerely believe that the exploratory side of music is much more accessible when sufficiently "chilled out." Technical passages may become less accurate, but it's all about priorities.

There's a quote by (I think!) Charles Mingus (that I can't locate now) that says something like, "Every musician, when he has reached sufficient facility, must choose whether to be an artist or a transcriptionist." (Can anyone help me on that quote? I'd really like to have the whole thing... I saw it on a t-shirt once at the Iowa City Jazz Festival )

What would Pink Floyd be without LSD? Hell, what would the Beatles be without LSD?

From personal experience, I'd say that weed puts me in a zone to really really concentrate on exactly one thing at a time -- and if that one thing happens to be playing bass, I get in the zone.

As for the one time I played on Acid -- there's stuff on that recording that makes me tingle, and I have no idea how I did it. I'm definitely going to do it again.

 

[plankspanker13]

The drunken/stoned rockstar thing is pretty cliche. No one really wants to see drunk people staggering around on stage.

Like some have mentioned here, I limit myself to one or two beers during a four-hour gig, with plenty of water in between. Last night, I didn't have a beer until we finished our gig (but it sure hit the spot, a nice end-of-night reward for a good gig).

Yep, that's about right. The audience knows that you're "one of them," in terms of having a good time, but you keep it straight enough to perform well and get home safely. Now, as for the joint once you get home....

 

[swanny88]

As far as alcohol is concerned, there's not a single thing it'll do for you - other than interfere with the proper functioning of your central nervous system, resulting in physical incoordination, slurred speech, fumbling, stumbling, etc. etc. What a mess!

Alcohol and musicianship simply don't go together at all...

MM

I totally agree. If you are going to do anything you have to Smoke, Take Pills, snort Coke or Crank. With that being said one beers a set and two for the last set never hurt anyone.

Marcus

 

[Bassman8416]

A lot of great Musicians died due to their Drug and alcohol abuse. There seems to be a level of creativity received from the initial drink, hit , line etc....after that I'm chasing that first one that is always elusive....so many folks chase that first one and wake up one day and wonder what the **** have I been doing these last 10 years. Sure many bands party, hard ...Aerosmith became a train wreck, the Beatles broke up....God knows how many members of the Grateful Dead died for direct reasons due to their use of booze and drugs ....the list goes on....Hendrix, Janis , Charlie Parker, the singer from Sublime and Shannon Hoon....on and on...Pink Floyd...Sid Barrett from too much LSD went ****ing insane....so many people say...well I'm not like that guy....it catches up , for some fast....others its like a slow ride spiraling down. This is my experience, whatever turns you on? fine . It becomes obvious after the first tune whether or not you can "Handle It" or not. For me there was a time I couldn't get from point A to point B without my "bag of tricks" never mind up on stage....Addiction and Alcoholism are diseases....cunning baffling and insidious....progressive and fatal......IMHEx...Peace

 

[BuckoSama]

IMO, Pink Floyd was MUCH better without Syd, but that's a mean-spirited thing to say I guess. Don't really mean it that way...

Acid worked for them. They would not be where they are today -- MUSIC would not be where it is today -- without Albert Hoffman's bike ride.

 

[j0n0j0n0]

i rekon smoking heaps of bud with your band before jamming and playing gigs is an awesome thing just as long as you know how much u can have. I believe it makes music more beautiful and u do some funny **** along the way.

 

[Munjibunga]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Guess it sucks to be in your band! LOL I'm just kidding.
I don't want to get philisophical with you but I know what a "drunk" is, but is a "stoner" anyone who smokes pot?

Naw. I'd call anyone who smokes pot every day a stoner. I used the term to include other drugs, too. Bottom line, if it impacts your performance, adios. The drug issue is critical in my band, because our lead guitarist is a Deputy District Attorney.