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Drummer has joined a second band...

A couple thoughts:
Why would you fire the drummer? You said the guitar player/songwriter has been the drag on the band.
It sounds like the drummer made a good career move. Your band has 0 gigs, the cover band has 15.
Also, many musicians I know play in more than one band. I'm in 2, and in one of them, the drummer plays in 5 projects.
Your band is getting it's crap together because the drummer is moving forward
 
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A band that isn't progressing musically, isn't actively recording, isn't playing out isn't (IMHO) a band; it's at best a social gathering.
Which can be fun, and enough for some.


It was posited that EVERYTHING hinges on the EP - which somehow never materialises.
I still don't understand that.
I don't get why an EP is required before they go out and play gigs.
 
We're a three piece originals grunge band trying to make our way locally. Turns out, the drummer got fed up of waiting for us to progress and has joined a second band, a rock cover band.

My initial response was, good for you. I've also been very fed up with this band because we have to rely on someone who is completely unreliable, but he is the source of all music (guitarist, vocalist, song writer). He's finally had the kick up the arse he's needed to finish the vocals on our EP - one year later - which is good news.

We're meeting up at the pub tonight to discuss how/if we're going to proceed. He's now signed up for a rehearsal every Wednesday with the cover band and has 15 gigs booked apparently. The guitarist and I are on the same side now, we don't think he should have joined the cover band. The worst bit is they've been friends for years, and the drummer didn't even discuss the possibility with the guitarist.

Apologies for the rant, it's just a PITA situation probably without a resolution! I'm expecting the drummer to either quit tonight, or we might have to ask him to leave. Whether he'll leave gracefully or be a dick about it I don't know, but I'm expecting the latter. I'm expecting him to claim ownership of the songs and say we shouldn't play them, record them etc.

My suggestion is that give him a chance, see how many practices he makes after this, see how his gigs cause us problems etc. We'll see!
I've been juggling being in 5 or 6 bands for years. Nothing irks me more than a band that reherses endlessly without any paying gigs in sight. Just my two cents.
 
Yeah, I see where the drummer is coming from, but I also see the delima that this could cause for the rest of you guys. I know a drummer that has been with a band (LSD) for about 8 years now. They are a good southern rock type band, but they seem to have given up on producing any new material for the past 5 to 6 years and the drummer is already looking for a new project.

These guys got a good start with the songs they had written and somehow received the support and backing from the lead guitarist from "The Kentucky Headhunters". He provided them with financial backing and even helped to produce and distribute their first album in 2014. They play maybe 4 or 5 shows a year, and although they are paid well to play these gigs it is really not enough to keep the drummers interest thus the delima... Sadly, I was at the last show they did a couple of months back at a local rodeo. By the time they started the crowd was mostly gone, and by the end of the hour and a half gig the only people left either were with the band or worked there.
 
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As others have said, you don't really have a right to be too irked unless this guy committed to some sort of unconditional exclusivity with your not-gigging band. And you are overreacting IMO. I would just continue forward. If you guys actually get things happening and there are too many gig/practice conflicts, then you fire him and get someone else. He's just the drummer, after all.
 
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I will quibble a bit with this. Back in the day, it was possible for one band to keep its members busy 4 to 5 nights a week. Today, if you want to get decent stage time, there's no alternative for most of us but to network with other musicians and find as many projects as you are compatible with.

The fact you refer to these things as “projects” seems to say to me you’ve already given up on (or maybe just dismissed as obsolete) the notion of a band in the truest sense and now view playing music as being more a participant in a local music service network? As in job shopping?

Again, I have no quarrel with people doing whatever they feel they need to do to stay as “busy” as they need. But I still think it fosters an image of musicians as ”Interchangeable Emmas” and the belief among those paying our check that if not us, then pretty much anyone else will do equally well. That’s called “commoditization of labor.” And it results in pay spiraling downwards as increasingly desperate musicians enter into a “race to the bottom” to see who will accept the lowest possible compensation.

And lest you think “free” or zero dollars is as low as it could go, with ‘pay to play’ arrangements - and with even small venues increasingly skimming the band’s merch tables - it’s dropped into negative territory with some bands operating (or willing to chance operating) at a loss - ostensibly for “exposure.”

Good article on what that means here. Quoting from it:

We don’t typically think of the jobs that we perform as commodities. The Merriam-Webster dictionary entry for commodity describes it as “a mass-produced unspecialized product.” But most of us view our jobs as specialized or somehow differentiated. We typically believe that we do them differently, and often better, than anyone else with the same job. In fact, we’d probably argue that no one does exactly the same job we do — that we perform at least a slightly different set of tasks, or perform them in a slightly different way, than any coworker.

We may well be right about that, but the world of business and management may feel otherwise. Jobs are increasingly viewed as undifferentiated and interchangeable across humans and machines — the very definition of a commodity.

So musicians are moving back and forth among numerous “projects“ that perform in public. Sound like we’ve set the stage for being seen as largely undifferentiated interchangeable people in the process. And using (foe example) back up tracks instead of singers or a horn section? Guess a fair number of musicians are also starting to be seen as being interchangeable with a machine performing the same role.

Like it or not, we’ve become largely commoditized as far as local performance goes. And it’s mostly by our own doing.

That’s a hard pill to swallow. But either way, we got the music future we allowed to be brought into being. Good luck rolling that clock back. :oops:
 
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So musicians are moving back and forth among numerous “projects“ that perform in public. Sound like we’ve set the stage for being seen as largely undifferentiated interchangeable people in the process.

Seems to me we've progressed from seeing ourselves as the Monkees, i.e. some fictitious pseudo family that lives and writes together and are somehow joined at the hip, to seeing ourselves as individual artists who are able to juggle more than one creative role. Yes, these are projects, though I view one of them as my main band.

Whatever you want to call them, entities that work enough to keep me preoccupied to the exclusion of everything else are rare. I'm not going to sit around on my butt feeling sorry for myself because of it when I could also be playing with someone else who wants me there.

The ones that think they're the Monkees are usually young and inexperienced with an idealistic mentality about how this all works.

But I'll tell you what doesn't change for me. That would be the amount of time I spend making sure I'm giving 100% to each and every one of these projects. Which is more than I can say for many "band members" I've encountered. You can't play more than one style with more than one group and you view your fellow musicians who can as interchangeable cogs in some sort of machine? That's pretty lame. Sorry, but it is.

When I first got back into music after a long hiatus, I joined a band that practiced for something close to a year and played one show. ONE show. I spent every one of my Friday nights with that bunch, and when I was sick one night I told them I couldn't make rehearsal and my "dedication" was called into question. My response was that I'll suit up and show up every single time when there are gigs on the books, but if I'm sick and you've got nothing on the books, I'm going to take a sick day, and I'm happy to hang around long enough to train my replacement but y'all can kiss my butt goodbye. And after I wasted that year I decided it would not happen again.

Bottom line? Ain't nobody got time for that. You want me one night a week ad infinitum you'd better be giving me a reason to be there. And I think your viewpoint on this is, by far, the exception rather than the rule among working pros. At least it is around here in 2020. It wasn't in 1985 but, as I learned the hard way, things have changed.
 
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The fact you refer to these things as “projects” seems to say to me you’ve already given up on (or maybe just dismissed as obsolete) the notion of a band in the truest sense and now view playing music as being more a participant in a local music service network? As in job shopping?

So musicians are moving back and forth among numerous “projects“ that perform in public. Sound like we’ve set the stage for being seen as largely undifferentiated interchangeable people in the process. And using (foe example) back up tracks instead of singers or a horn section? Guess a fair number of musicians are also starting to be seen as being interchangeable with a machine performing the same role.
I think it's been this way for a long time to some extent, but do agree that it is more prevalent these days. But IMO this is a good thing. The only thing you lose is the insular, inbred and overly inward looking band dynamic (yuck). I recently read in Bob Mould's autobiography about how freeing it was for him to get away from the "one band" idea and how, for him, it has improved his playing and his ability to express different types of ideas and just generally made everything better. YMMV
 
The fact you refer to these things as “projects” seems to say to me you’ve already given up on (or maybe just dismissed as obsolete) the notion of a band in the truest sense and now view playing music as being more a participant in a local music service network? As in job shopping?

Again, I have no quarrel with people doing whatever they feel they need to do to stay as “busy” as they need. But I still think it fosters an image of musicians as ”Interchangeable Emmas” and the belief among those paying our check that if not us, then pretty much anyone else will do equally well. That’s called “commoditization of labor.” And it results in pay spiraling downwards as increasingly desperate musicians enter into a “race to the bottom” to see who will accept the lowest possible compensation.

And lest you think “free” or zero dollars is as low as it could go, with ‘pay to play’ arrangements - and with even small venues increasingly skimming the band’s merch tables - it’s dropped into negative territory with some bands operating (or willing to chance operating) at a loss - ostensibly for “exposure.”

Good article on what that means here. Quoting from it:



So musicians are moving back and forth among numerous “projects“ that perform in public. Sound like we’ve set the stage for being seen as largely undifferentiated interchangeable people in the process. And using (foe example) back up tracks instead of singers or a horn section? Guess a fair number of musicians are also starting to be seen as being interchangeable with a machine performing the same role.

Like it or not, we’ve become largely commoditized as far as local performance goes. And it’s mostly by our own doing.

That’s a hard pill to swallow. But either way, we got the music future we allowed to be brought into being. Good luck rolling that clock back. :oops:

All interesting points....to which I won't jump up to argue because I think that you are right in a lot of instances and places. HOWEVER...When clubs started figuring out that people would come to their places to spend money just as much with a d.j. as with a band that might have had something to do with the commoditization of musician labor. A D.J. charges a club owner a couple hundred bucks for the same time that a band charges more for and folks still show up and dance. A lot of those folks went to a bar with a band playing not because of the band but because of the atmosphere. Looking for companionship, let off steam at the end of the week, dance etc. Now most folks have found other ways to achieve that. For a band to draw any crowd and keep em they had better be good. Really good.
Supply and demand. The demand has changed.
Back in "the day" twenty somethings were all about going to bars and hearing bands. Today not so much. Today the 30 and 40 somethings are also finding other ways to entertain themselves.
We are now trying to attract the folks who actually think hearing a band can be a good time. There aren't as many of these folks as there used to be. When we show up half prepared and do OUR favorite tunes we risk losing them too.
in my humble opinion.
 
I will quibble a bit with this. Back in the day, it was possible for one band to keep its members busy 4 to 5 nights a week. Today, if you want to get decent stage time, there's no alternative for most of us but to network with other musicians and find as many projects as you are compatible with.

I play in four different projects right now. My main band is an originals/covers combo that can hold down three sets of mostly high energy music and keep a crowd on its feet. The same members, sans the singer, also back up a songwriter who does country-influenced indie pop originals with a few covers tossed in. Then I'm principal hired gun at the moment for a blues band. And I just booked monthly shows with a folksy artist who writes his own stuff and covers things like Dylan and Neil Young.

None of these four projects is remotely like the others; there's nothing cookie cutter about any of it. But they all keep me busier collectively than I would be otherwise, yet I am still not anywhere close to as busy as I was in 1985, with ONE band.
Here here. Back in the 80's you were in 1 band. In the summer we played EVERY NIGHT and 2 gigs on Saturdays. The music consuming world has changed.
 
Here here. Back in the 80's you were in 1 band. In the summer we played EVERY NIGHT and 2 gigs on Saturdays. The music consuming world has changed.
I played Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and sometimes Sunday throughout the 1980's. I didn't have time to be in more than one band. I can't find a single example of a regional band playing more than two nights a week, maybe occasionally three, these days. And those are very rare.
 
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So is this a band or the mafia? What would make you think that you have any right whatsoever to control another person? Has the drummer missed any of your rehearsals? Has he missed any gigs? If no to the previous questions, you haven't a leg to stand on, except for some vague pissy idea that band members should be eternally loyal to a bunch of guys, who by your own admission, can't get their shizzle together.

What's the average age of the band members? 15?

Pffttt.