My guess is that we agree... btw..Throwing the thread off topic...just from your spelling... you ever heard of Tom Hicks and the song "We got stronger beer"? I could be really wrong... wouldn't be the first time.
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Drummer has joined a second band...
- Thread starter dirtychinchilla
- Start date
Australia rather than Canada. But Hicks and I should be trying to imitate Queen Lizzy, but that only explains the spelling I get right.
It seems a little ambiguous, the word secretly is used by the op but then again post one reads as if he straight up told them, so maybe secretly refers to not asking permission (my assumption).
that was my take, also. the OP didn't mention anything sneaky happening; it's seems to me - or maybe i'm wrong - that it's just the band's perception of ownership of the drummer that makes them think he needs their permission or even to tell them.
Drummer just wants to gig, good for him, but might be tough on your originals band. I have a similar scenario to the drummer, in that, I play with a regularly gigging covers band and have another slow-moving side project (feels like a dead end really).
The cover band always gets my attention first since it is super fun and lots of good gigs. If he is a good player, sitting around waiting for months for something to come together will get old, fast.
All that said, it is fair to ask if he will be able to rehearse regularly, but tread lightly if you dont want to lose him. Or, find someone else.
Good luck
And this is what you consider a pain in the ass situation? Bwahahaha...
It's 2:37am in the UK and @dirtychinchilla has not responded with an update.
I fear that the worst has happened.
I fear that the worst has happened.
Is grunge without drama really grunge though?
OP, you're in a 3-piece originals grunge band playing in London so, unless something radically altered while I was in Malaga, you all know you're not going to hit the big time soon. Because it's 2020. I actually found it all a bit bizarre (sorry, not trying to be confrontational but there are some unavoidable realities that should be in the front of everyone's minds).
It's hard to convince pub owners to give a night over to original acts and you get duffer nights and less pay than bands playing crowd-pleasing covers. It's like that because the owners are on tight margins themselves and can't bankroll developing talent (who, in the statistically unlikely event of becoming a thing, will move onto larger venues anyway).
I was in originals bands and accepted this. Also, after the initial "we all get together every Tuesday night", the vocalist and drummer figured it made sense to leave many of the Tuesdays to the guitarist and me to work out promising ideas so that they had something to work with other weeks rather than sitting around bored. If you're dependent on a sole songwriter then a lot of the creative rewards for putting up with the hardships evaporate, especially if the songwriter doesn't seem to be putting a shift in on the stuff you do have. What's the EP for? Venue owners won't listen to more than half of the first track. Punters won't 'discover' it and decide to come to your gigs - nor will many pay for it subsequently.
Seems like everything's the wrong way round. Get your songs together, play the deathly slots at small, nearby venues and encourage as many people as you know to come along. Build it up from there and there might be a point to recording your better songs. Waiting so long that Grunge might actually come back in fashion is a policy, but I don't blame the drummer for keeping his muscle memory exercises going elsewhere in the meantime.
It's hard to convince pub owners to give a night over to original acts and you get duffer nights and less pay than bands playing crowd-pleasing covers. It's like that because the owners are on tight margins themselves and can't bankroll developing talent (who, in the statistically unlikely event of becoming a thing, will move onto larger venues anyway).
I was in originals bands and accepted this. Also, after the initial "we all get together every Tuesday night", the vocalist and drummer figured it made sense to leave many of the Tuesdays to the guitarist and me to work out promising ideas so that they had something to work with other weeks rather than sitting around bored. If you're dependent on a sole songwriter then a lot of the creative rewards for putting up with the hardships evaporate, especially if the songwriter doesn't seem to be putting a shift in on the stuff you do have. What's the EP for? Venue owners won't listen to more than half of the first track. Punters won't 'discover' it and decide to come to your gigs - nor will many pay for it subsequently.
Seems like everything's the wrong way round. Get your songs together, play the deathly slots at small, nearby venues and encourage as many people as you know to come along. Build it up from there and there might be a point to recording your better songs. Waiting so long that Grunge might actually come back in fashion is a policy, but I don't blame the drummer for keeping his muscle memory exercises going elsewhere in the meantime.
This isn't a band issue. It's a group dynamics issue, and in my opinion you and your guitarist have taken umbrage at your drummer's desire for individuality outside of the group identity.
As @LBS-bass stated, a band should be a task group; a focused group with a goal. Without a focus on a task, the group devolves into something without purpose, akin to a mob. I think that we tend to treat groups as something that should continue after an initial project (a collection of tasks towards a common goal) is complete and further tasks aren't found or are abstractly defined, and I think that's a mistake.
I'd recommend reading Experiences in Groups by Wilfred Bion. I need to reread it, but it's a pretty good exploration of group dynamics as a whole, and the relationship of the individual to groups.
Good luck with your situation. Talk to your drummer and see what happens; he will likely be able to work with your band and his other band, but if your band doesn't have concrete tasks and goals, it will not retain people who don't have other reasons to assimilate into your group identity.
As @LBS-bass stated, a band should be a task group; a focused group with a goal. Without a focus on a task, the group devolves into something without purpose, akin to a mob. I think that we tend to treat groups as something that should continue after an initial project (a collection of tasks towards a common goal) is complete and further tasks aren't found or are abstractly defined, and I think that's a mistake.
I'd recommend reading Experiences in Groups by Wilfred Bion. I need to reread it, but it's a pretty good exploration of group dynamics as a whole, and the relationship of the individual to groups.
Good luck with your situation. Talk to your drummer and see what happens; he will likely be able to work with your band and his other band, but if your band doesn't have concrete tasks and goals, it will not retain people who don't have other reasons to assimilate into your group identity.
That the absolute torrent of negativity has forced him to evaluate the objective reality of his current situation and he is now off looking for a covers band in search of a bassist, leading him to diss himself for not asking permission first?
The Drummer suddenly remembered a great piece of advice that all of us aspiring rock stars would do well to remember.
"Don't quit your cover band (until the indie band pays the bills)."
"Don't quit your cover band (until the indie band pays the bills)."
This part makes no sense to me. You must have left some details out or you are hopelessly optimistic for no good reason regarding your frontman.
Past performance is the best indicator of future performance. Change is very very rare in people. It sounds like your drummer knows this and made a very logical move for himself.
Good luck with whatever you guys choose to do. Don't burn any bridges with the drummer would be my advice.
Drummer waits on you guys for a YEAR before getting in a working band? That's sounds pretty patient on his part to me. Your best bet is to support him and hope he still has interest in your ( his side) band.
You can't keep a good drummer without showing him some money or a good time. End of story. Sad but true.
okcrum
in your chest
Hmmm, originals band going nowhere, drummer takes another gig but doesn't quit or blow the band off, and umbrage ensues. Being upset at this is not a reasonable option, nor is it the actual cause of the umbrage IMO.
I think the best venue for this rant would be in front of a mirror.
I think the best venue for this rant would be in front of a mirror.
The way I read it the drummer's supposed crimes were firstly not telling the others he was thinking of getting some performance in elsewhere, then going ahead and doing it without permission. Unfreakinbelievable in the circumstances.
Drummers thinking for themselves, now thats the world upside down. Behaviour like that should definitely not be encouraged.
Having said that, i play in 2 bands atm and have played in more at the same time in the past. I make music because i like it and won't be restricted by bandmembers as to what i play. the one that pays is fun and the people are nice, but because of former experiences (BL telling me and others what, how and how long to practice at home, even made a roster for it) i'm always very clear when i join a band. Usually tell them something like this:
Music, as it is, is bigger and wider than us. I love a lot of it and won't be restricted in any way. So let's either keep eachother busy with things we like or accept that we have other things as well.
Having said that, i play in 2 bands atm and have played in more at the same time in the past. I make music because i like it and won't be restricted by bandmembers as to what i play. the one that pays is fun and the people are nice, but because of former experiences (BL telling me and others what, how and how long to practice at home, even made a roster for it) i'm always very clear when i join a band. Usually tell them something like this:
Music, as it is, is bigger and wider than us. I love a lot of it and won't be restricted in any way. So let's either keep eachother busy with things we like or accept that we have other things as well.
Blimey, I can't reply to all these posts, but thank you all for your input. We met up last night and it was more or less resolved thanks goodness. I find this board pretty cutthroat - the drummer and guitarist have been friends for years and that's why the guitarist is upset. We're just moving forward on the basis of booking out time and seeing how it goes. I've booked 3 rehearsals for the next 3 weeks.
You're all absolutely right to criticise us for lack of progress. We have been gigging, but without the EP we've got nothing to offer any potential fans and nothing to offer a promoter to say this is a great reason to have us back. I have a hard enough time booking gigs as it is, never mind our lack of actual music to play to them. The guitarist is recording his vocals on saturday now as I think this whole thing put a fire under his arse, which is wonderful.
I am by far the most organised member of the band and being committed to it, I tried to treat it as a business. The guitarist didn't and he's got his reason for that. I gave up doing that businessy bit when I didn't think he was pulling his weight. It got too much for me. I'm hoping now, though, that we can spark that thing again.
I've got no desire to join another band. I was in two bands at once at the beginning and found that with trying to spend time with my wife, my friends, and then two bands who would ideally practice weekly, I couldn't do it. It wasn't what I wanted. So this is my band for now and until it folds I probably won't do anything else.
So on the whole it was quite positive.
Yeah agreed. His wife did say to him, can you afford it? That's a genuine concern as I know money is tight for him. We don't have paid gigs to fund the rehearsals or a free rehearsal space.
As I say above, we haven't got anything to offer promoters. I don't know the first thing about booking gigs around London really, so whilst I've tried my best it's been very difficult.
Maybe. As I say above though, I couldn't handle another band.
Hmm.
We have played a number of gigs. Not as many as we might like, but it's been so difficult to get what we have had.
You're all absolutely right to criticise us for lack of progress. We have been gigging, but without the EP we've got nothing to offer any potential fans and nothing to offer a promoter to say this is a great reason to have us back. I have a hard enough time booking gigs as it is, never mind our lack of actual music to play to them. The guitarist is recording his vocals on saturday now as I think this whole thing put a fire under his arse, which is wonderful.
I am by far the most organised member of the band and being committed to it, I tried to treat it as a business. The guitarist didn't and he's got his reason for that. I gave up doing that businessy bit when I didn't think he was pulling his weight. It got too much for me. I'm hoping now, though, that we can spark that thing again.
I've got no desire to join another band. I was in two bands at once at the beginning and found that with trying to spend time with my wife, my friends, and then two bands who would ideally practice weekly, I couldn't do it. It wasn't what I wanted. So this is my band for now and until it folds I probably won't do anything else.
So on the whole it was quite positive.
Yeah agreed. His wife did say to him, can you afford it? That's a genuine concern as I know money is tight for him. We don't have paid gigs to fund the rehearsals or a free rehearsal space.
As I say above, we haven't got anything to offer promoters. I don't know the first thing about booking gigs around London really, so whilst I've tried my best it's been very difficult.
Maybe. As I say above though, I couldn't handle another band.
Hmm.
We have played a number of gigs. Not as many as we might like, but it's been so difficult to get what we have had.
In my current 7 piece country music cover band literally every member is in at least one other band. They all want to gig more often and this country band only provides about 3 dozen gigs a year.
Even I, the last holdout who only belongs to this band, have very recently joined a Springsteen cover band.
Even I, the last holdout who only belongs to this band, have very recently joined a Springsteen cover band.
