Drummer has joined a second band...

[dirtychinchilla]

Has anyone actually said that the drummer was out of line for joining a second band? Seems to me the only argument is how he let (or didn't let) the band know.

When I've been in that situation, I just let people know what I was doing and made sure everyone knew that any gig conflicts were based on first come first served. If they weren't happy with the situation, find someone else to play, be it temporary, or permanent.

That's absolutely it. I have right to have a problem with him joining another band and nor does the guitarist, particularly when the guitarist has been so lame at holding up his end of the band. I'm very happy for the drummer that he's got this new gig, he'll get paid, he'll network and hopefully get us gigs, and he'll become a better drummer through having to play in a 4 piece with a different variety of songs.

He just could have handled the whole thing a lot better by mentioning it to us in advance. I wasn't upset about that either to be fair, it's just the guitarist. The guitarist has been lame and there's no arguing on that.

 

[LowRick]

Blimey, I can't reply to all these posts, but thank you all for your input. We met up last night and it was more or less resolved thanks goodness. I find this board pretty cutthroat - the drummer and guitarist have been friends for years and that's why the guitarist is upset. We're just moving forward on the basis of booking out time and seeing how it goes. I've booked 3 rehearsals for the next 3 weeks.

You're all absolutely right to criticise us for lack of progress. We have been gigging, but without the EP we've got nothing to offer any potential fans and nothing to offer a promoter to say this is a great reason to have us back. I have a hard enough time booking gigs as it is, never mind our lack of actual music to play to them. The guitarist is recording his vocals on saturday now as I think this whole thing put a fire under his arse, which is wonderful.

I am by far the most organised member of the band and being committed to it, I tried to treat it as a business. The guitarist didn't and he's got his reason for that. I gave up doing that businessy bit when I didn't think he was pulling his weight. It got too much for me. I'm hoping now, though, that we can spark that thing again.

I've got no desire to join another band. I was in two bands at once at the beginning and found that with trying to spend time with my wife, my friends, and then two bands who would ideally practice weekly, I couldn't do it. It wasn't what I wanted. So this is my band for now and until it folds I probably won't do anything else.

So on the whole it was quite positive.



Yeah agreed. His wife did say to him, can you afford it? That's a genuine concern as I know money is tight for him. We don't have paid gigs to fund the rehearsals or a free rehearsal space.



As I say above, we haven't got anything to offer promoters. I don't know the first thing about booking gigs around London really, so whilst I've tried my best it's been very difficult.



Maybe. As I say above though, I couldn't handle another band.



Hmm.



We have played a number of gigs. Not as many as we might like, but it's been so difficult to get what we have had.

Maybe a good thing then you had that chat and nice that it went well.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

I think so. We actually aired a lot of grievances yesterday and given the atmosphere of the whole thing, it was actually pretty refreshing. Their main issue with me is that I forget bass lines. I openly said to them that I have a real hard time learning parts. I don't think I'm a natural musician (other than maybe singing) and it's really challenging for me. Their saying that passionately like they did yesterday has given me a kick to make sure that I take the playing more seriously.

Being the organised one, I've done more band management than anything else. I've just tried to be a solid reliable bassist, not playing anything wild but not letting the side down. They'd also like to see some more creative input from me...

 

[nilorius]

If he has enough time for both then it's ok.

 

[Nev375]

He just could have handled the whole thing a lot better by mentioning it to us in advance.

Well, that's convenient for you, but from his point of view that's not a wise move.

He does not know you will be accepting of the information. For many groups, announcing that you might be looking for another band could bring up thoughts of disloyalty in other members or an anxiety that the band may have to find a new drummer. It can create drama and indeed it has on some level since you are venting about it online to a bunch of strangers on the internet.

I'd wager it's not the first time this has happened to him.

Why bring something like that up when it's not set in stone?

 

[LowRick]

I think so. We actually aired a lot of grievances yesterday and given the atmosphere of the whole thing, it was actually pretty refreshing. Their main issue with me is that I forget bass lines. I openly said to them that I have a real hard time learning parts. I don't think I'm a natural musician (other than maybe singing) and it's really challenging for me. Their saying that passionately like they did yesterday has given me a kick to make sure that I take the playing more seriously.

Being the organised one, I've done more band management than anything else. I've just tried to be a solid reliable bassist, not playing anything wild but not letting the side down. They'd also like to see some more creative input from me...

I hear you on the forgetting basslines part. Few years back, the only thing i saw as a solution was writing everything down and play from (self made) charts. I really hated having to do that, specially when i was the only one in the band unfolding a music-stand at rehearsals, but it worked.
You can write down creative parts too. My sister who makes a lot of more music than i do, always measures the level of a musician by whether or not they have a pencil handy at rehearsals. No pencil: he or she is probably winging it.
Anyway, nowadays, i look over a chart and have a little "oh yeah, that was how it went" moment. Enough to to get me going.

 

[interp]

Hahaha! That's fair. He's a good drummer but he's not an easy person to get along with. His timing is sometimes questionable and he often forgets his parts, but he's very creative and has a good ear for arrangements. I really like his drumming, but a couple of times he's gone out of time and then sort of said, drummer knows best. Sorry dude, the rhythm section is two parts!

A “good drummer” whose timing is questionable and who often forgets parts? Nah, he’s not a good drummer.

 

[punchdrunk]

Never fault, or stand in the way of, someone making their money. He sounds like a realist.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

Well, that's convenient for you, but from his point of view that's not a wise move.

He does not know you will be accepting of the information. For many groups, announcing that you might be looking for another band could bring up thoughts of disloyalty in other members or an anxiety that the band may have to find a new drummer. It can create drama and indeed it has on some level since you are venting about it online to a bunch of strangers on the internet.

I'd wager it's not the first time this has happened to him.

Why bring something like that up when it's not set in stone?

Interesting perspective, thank you. I think the difference might have been if he'd brought it to us before, had his aim been to make some money as a cover band it's something we would have been able to do together. He did sort of float the idea, but he is terrible at communicating properly and didn't get that message across as he thought he had.

I don't consider it a case of disloyalty. He wants to play more, he wants to earn some money, the originals band doesn't cut it, fine.

I hear you on the forgetting basslines part. Few years back, the only thing i saw as a solution was writing everything down and play from (self made) charts. I really hated having to do that, specially when i was the only one in the band unfolding a music-stand at rehearsals, but it worked.
You can write down creative parts too. My sister who makes a lot of more music than i do, always measures the level of a musician by whether or not they have a pencil handy at rehearsals. No pencil: he or she is probably winging it.
Anyway, nowadays, i look over a chart and have a little "oh yeah, that was how it went" moment. Enough to to get me going.

That's a very good idea, thank you. I have made tabs for some of the songs, although some of them I wouldn't need any notes for and are subject to interpretation anyway. I'll make the effort to do that though cheers.

A “good drummer” whose timing is questionable and who often forgets parts? Nah, he’s not a good drummer.

Hah I know what you mean. He is very creative though and has a great ear for arrangements.

 

[DirtDog]

that was my take, also. the OP didn't mention anything sneaky happening; it's seems to me - or maybe i'm wrong - that it's just the band's perception of ownership of the drummer that makes them think he needs their permission or even to tell them.

Well, as is often the case, it’s seems less about what happened (drummer joined another band) than how it was handled (drummer neglected to tell his friend) and the resulting perception (sneakiness).

OP and the guitarist have every right to be upset at this perceived (or actual) slight, but not at the fact he’s playing music with others.

 

[Koshchei]

I finally think the guitarist is in a position to pull his socks up. In short, once the EP is recorded I'll be able to organise gigs and therefore we will progress. We did play a few gigs late last year, but with nothing to offer any possible fans it has been difficult to offer a follow up.

In the round, I do agree with you, but we're all passionate about the project and the EP is absolutely key to that.



Yeah you're probably right. He is extremely unreliable. He and I are generally in agreement, but his inability to record his vocals has pushed me to my limit.

My question is "why are YOU sticking around?" It seems to me that as the bass player in service of the singer/songwriter guitarist, you're getting nothing in return. You could be out gigging and playing with productive musicians rather than worrying about "possible fans". Unless you're also committed to the project (i.e. getting a percentage of the song-writing), you're just cooling your heels for what, at best, would be per gig pay. Which you can get in any band.

 

[SteveHeissner]

It sounds like your drummer made the right choice. You might consider doing the same.

 

[bassicmike]

... I find this board pretty cutthroat ...

I don't think the board is particularly cutthroat.

I do think it skews older, and older musicians have a much lower tolerance for band shenanigans than younger musicians trying to make it.

 

[JakobT]

As long as it doesn't interfere with his commitment to your band, I don't see the problem. It's his job to make this work, or be upfront about it and quit if he can't. I certainly wouldn't fire him solely on a vague suspicion that his commitment may waver in the future because of his other involvement.

Use the meeting to get specific about what you're looking for from him. If he can and wants to deliver, then no further action is needed until that changes.

 

[SonnyBassPlayer]

I didn't read about him taking off hsi position in your band.. Is it sure he won't be able to also comply his duties in your band?

I play in 4 original acts which all started in different moments of my life and I simply manage my time in a way that makes me keep it all in place respecting time for all bands. I usually rehearse 3-4 times a week, mostly once a week x band.

I suggets just see how he goes..

 

[dirtychinchilla]

I have no problem with him being in another band, and I've no right to have a problem. What he does with his time outside the band is nothing to do with me. If it were another originals band I might be concerned because he's putting his ideas somewhere else, but I don't think any of us would even consider being in another originals band at this point.

I think he will probably be OK doing two bands, but he's not the most organised man and he has already expressed that he might have difficulty paying for two rehearsals a week. His new band meets every single Wednesday. So we'll see how that goes.

It sounds like your drummer made the right choice. You might consider doing the same.

I've thought about it, but I'm really proud of the music we have made, recorded or not. I'm not ready to move on from that yet.

 

[db59]

+1....and not easy to get along with.... yikes.......and the positives are?

 

[JZQuantum]

I've been in this situation so many times...the unreliable members bring down the reliable members. Who is at fault? The unreliable one does high quality work...when he actually does it. The reliable one is always on time and even helps you take down and carry your rig to the car afterwards.

Life is too short. Have fun and play music whenever or wherever you want with people that make you want to play better.

Like minds should be together. If the drummer has found a reliable band leader, then hey all the best for him.

Everyone else should understand his position to see what his motivation is to stay in or leave the group.

 

[ArtechnikA]

As I say above, we haven't got anything to offer promoters.

I bet you have a phone with a camera - or know someone who does.
Get performance videos at your gigs. Videos showing lots of happy people.
Get a FaceBook page - they're free. Get a ReverbNation page - they're free. SoundCloud - you get the picture.
Post performance videos. Send links to your pages in every email.
Put the videos on a laptop and take it with you when you talk to promoters and bookers. Play them the videos featuring happy crowds.
None of this will cost you a dime. Grassroots promotion. The mainstay of indie musicians forever.
Grunge may be stuck in 1985, but you don't have to be.

 

[Shalto]

Blimey, I can't reply to all these posts, but thank you all for your input. We met up last night and it was more or less resolved thanks goodness. I find this board pretty cutthroat - the drummer and guitarist have been friends for years and that's why the guitarist is upset. We're just moving forward on the basis of booking out time and seeing how it goes. I've booked 3 rehearsals for the next 3 weeks.

You're all absolutely right to criticise us for lack of progress. We have been gigging, but without the EP we've got nothing to offer any potential fans and nothing to offer a promoter to say this is a great reason to have us back. I have a hard enough time booking gigs as it is, never mind our lack of actual music to play to them. The guitarist is recording his vocals on saturday now as I think this whole thing put a fire under his arse, which is wonderful.

I am by far the most organised member of the band and being committed to it, I tried to treat it as a business. The guitarist didn't and he's got his reason for that. I gave up doing that businessy bit when I didn't think he was pulling his weight. It got too much for me. I'm hoping now, though, that we can spark that thing again.

I've got no desire to join another band. I was in two bands at once at the beginning and found that with trying to spend time with my wife, my friends, and then two bands who would ideally practice weekly, I couldn't do it. It wasn't what I wanted. So this is my band for now and until it folds I probably won't do anything else.

So on the whole it was quite positive.



Yeah agreed. His wife did say to him, can you afford it? That's a genuine concern as I know money is tight for him. We don't have paid gigs to fund the rehearsals or a free rehearsal space.



As I say above, we haven't got anything to offer promoters. I don't know the first thing about booking gigs around London really, so whilst I've tried my best it's been very difficult.



Maybe. As I say above though, I couldn't handle another band.



Hmm.



We have played a number of gigs. Not as many as we might like, but it's been so difficult to get what we have had.

Glad it has come to a positive outcome.

The board is a bit cut throat. Its seems the more prolific posters here are often working musicians who have a hard nosed attitude because for them it's work rather than art . Many posters here seem to earn their bread by playing in covers bands so take the attitude that you need to play the gig that pays, so aren't very patient with bands that gig rarely. Its something they wouldnt tolerate as they are either pro or semi pro. So many on here can be forthright in their opinions about ditching bands that aren't showing signs of getting paid work and cynical about musicians changing from past behaviour. This in the context that might explain why some are so strongly opinionated about a band dragging it's feet, they wouldn't put up with it because for them it's work, not art for art's sake. This may not be relevant to your situation as for you it may be something creative to do but not how you the bills, so it's ok to take the workers post with a pinch of salt if it isn't relevant to you. I am a weekend warrior myself so while not all posts are relevant to me, I do find the glimpse behind the working musicians world fascinating and good prep for more serious work.