- Oct 18, 2012
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Dueling loyalties
- Thread starter two fingers
- Start date
Counter-argument - a good male singer that plays an instrument is a huge rarity, esp in a small market. Attractive female that only sings - dime a dozen (quality varies, of course).
I think I'd have to insist on 'proof' regarding her insinuations. Not in a confrontational way, just like you said - small talent pool. Really need a solid reason to give up on him.
I think I'd have to insist on 'proof' regarding her insinuations. Not in a confrontational way, just like you said - small talent pool. Really need a solid reason to give up on him.
Wait! What? Ordinarily, the female vocalist would leave the stage and do a costume change while another band member sings a lead. She is re-introduced with great fan-fare after a few tunes and the band kicks it up one level. Her ego is replenished, and the band gets the benefit of the keyboardist's great vocals plus the show / hype of the chick singer coming back onstage in a new outfit, usually more revealing, to the over-emphasized (but good natured) shall we say demonstrations of approval from the male band members. Bang. If you have the production values, you shift the stage lighting to accent and highlight the new colors of the outfit she changes into giving the entire stage a different look. Bang. Bang.
It's up to the chick singer to demonstrate the showmanship (showomanship) to pull that off. If she can. If she can sing harmonies it sounds like she's had some formal training / voice coaching. Does she have a choreographer / dance instructor? She is, after all, making an effort to develop versatility with the guitar lessons. Whether that's where she would actually get the biggest bang for the buck in her musical carrier is her call. T & A and some good dance steps always works if backed up with superlative vocalizations.
For example, you haven't really seen a stage show unless you've seen Tina Turner perform from just off stage. The energy that woman released per song would launch the space shuttle. Her instrument was her voice and her movements which were extraordinary. Your chick singer drama queen won't have time to be a drama queen if she's working as hard as she should be on her musicianship / showmanship. I wish her good luck.
It's up to the chick singer to demonstrate the showmanship (showomanship) to pull that off. If she can. If she can sing harmonies it sounds like she's had some formal training / voice coaching. Does she have a choreographer / dance instructor? She is, after all, making an effort to develop versatility with the guitar lessons. Whether that's where she would actually get the biggest bang for the buck in her musical carrier is her call. T & A and some good dance steps always works if backed up with superlative vocalizations.
For example, you haven't really seen a stage show unless you've seen Tina Turner perform from just off stage. The energy that woman released per song would launch the space shuttle. Her instrument was her voice and her movements which were extraordinary. Your chick singer drama queen won't have time to be a drama queen if she's working as hard as she should be on her musicianship / showmanship. I wish her good luck.
So, my "perfect" band isn't so perfect.
I brought a singer/keys player into a brand new band. I've been wanting to work with this guy forever. We have done fill-in stuff together but were never able to be in a band together. We have mutual respect for each other to say the least.
We had a female singer, a great guitar player, a drummer with great chops who also sings and me (bass and vocals).
The guitar player is not only a friend, but he lives in my neighborhood and our kids play together.
The last peice of the puzzle was the singer who plays keys.
To make a long story short, the female singer was threatened by the keys/singer and went on a witch hunt. She doesn't want him in the band. She "found a guy" (won't tell us who he is) who "worked with him in the past and says he isn't a team player".
The guitar player frankly doesn't care what happens to the keys guy. He just wants a band to form with or without him. He and the female singer already do duo gigs together so he's not going against her. Period. He feels bad about it though.
So, it's complicated. The female singer is a client of my wife's business. The guitar player lives in my neighborhood and our kids are friends. And the keys player is a great guy (ridiculously talented) who was brought in by me to fill the gaps in this band.
I know what's right. In fact, I already know what I'm going to do. (Either he stays or I go.)
I'm just venting. This band had huge potential.
(For those of you keeping score at home, yes, this is a direct result of the Chris Stapleton derangement thread situation.)
I have every reason to beleive that she'll try to make me out as the bad guy here. She doesn't realize I have been in this music scene for 32 years and have made exactly zero enemies. She'll learn the hard way, unfortunately.
Keys guy and I will put together another band that will probably be pretty good. But it won't match the potential this project had (talent pool is kind of shallow in this mostly rural part of the state). I'm not going to try and poach other members from this project until several months pass and they get nowhere. Doing it immediately would he classless.
The moral lesson here....
If you have a huge fragile ego, do the rest of us a favor and shove it up your rectum. Thank you very much.
Add a murder and an illicit love affair, and you got the making of a great soap opera screenplay.
IMO, life is too short for drama. The potential of an untenable situation has no value. Move on.
I've actually been on both sides of a situation like this. I was totally on board with bringing in a new lead player. He was a church friend of the drummer. I'd heard him play but never spoke with him before. I was excited for the first band practice. Within 5 minutes and before we ever came close to playing together I realized he was, IMO, a huge DB. I'm sure I looked unreasonable, but I just couldn't stand him as a person and couldn't understand why the other guys could.
And I've been where the OP is now. Trying to bring a guy in I think will help and getting blowback. Honestly, quite often being in a band sucks.
And I've been where the OP is now. Trying to bring a guy in I think will help and getting blowback. Honestly, quite often being in a band sucks.
She needs to be reminded that people learn from their experiences. If he did come off as a non - team player, maybe he's not that way , now. She'll never know until you try him out.
Low testosteroneYes, because Lord knows, there have never been any insecure male lead singers.
"IMO a real singer/vocalist would be just as excited about the harmonies & overall BV possibilities as well as the male/female vocal dynamic."
I agree with this. I love doing harmonies. I'd rather do that than sing lead.
I agree with this. I love doing harmonies. I'd rather do that than sing lead.
sounds like the OP has been around the block in that part of the musical world, and it doesn't sound like he's heard this from anyone else... at least, it's not mentioned in the post.
singing harmony = one of my favorite things to do
If she can't sing harmony, then she is not a real singer. That's like a guitarist who can only solo, but not play chords.
So, my "perfect" band isn't so perfect.
I brought a singer/keys player into a brand new band. I've been wanting to work with this guy forever. We have done fill-in stuff together but were never able to be in a band together. We have mutual respect for each other to say the least.
We had a female singer, a great guitar player, a drummer with great chops who also sings and me (bass and vocals).
The guitar player is not only a friend, but he lives in my neighborhood and our kids play together.
The last peice of the puzzle was the singer who plays keys.
To make a long story short, the female singer was threatened by the keys/singer and went on a witch hunt. She doesn't want him in the band. She "found a guy" (won't tell us who he is) who "worked with him in the past and says he isn't a team player".
The guitar player frankly doesn't care what happens to the keys guy. He just wants a band to form with or without him. He and the female singer already do duo gigs together so he's not going against her. Period. He feels bad about it though.
So, it's complicated. The female singer is a client of my wife's business. The guitar player lives in my neighborhood and our kids are friends. And the keys player is a great guy (ridiculously talented) who was brought in by me to fill the gaps in this band.
I know what's right. In fact, I already know what I'm going to do. (Either he stays or I go.)
I'm just venting. This band had huge potential.
(For those of you keeping score at home, yes, this is a direct result of the Chris Stapleton derangement thread situation.)
I have every reason to beleive that she'll try to make me out as the bad guy here. She doesn't realize I have been in this music scene for 32 years and have made exactly zero enemies. She'll learn the hard way, unfortunately.
Keys guy and I will put together another band that will probably be pretty good. But it won't match the potential this project had (talent pool is kind of shallow in this mostly rural part of the state). I'm not going to try and poach other members from this project until several months pass and they get nowhere. Doing it immediately would he classless.
The moral lesson here....
If you have a huge fragile ego, do the rest of us a favor and shove it up your rectum. Thank you very much.
You seem to be pooping where you eat.
To the OP once again I find myself saying: just have a straightforward talk with the singer one on one. You like her, she's your wife's client, she sounds great, the band has tons of potential, the keys guy is a great player and will enhance the band, he'll sound good with her, her hearsay info is off the mark, it would be a shame to miss a great opportunity for unfounded personal reasons, and why not give him a chance, and so on.
I guess that's what you'll try to do at your band meeting but this is clearly a case of insecurity and that's something that's not best addressed in a group setting.
I guess that's what you'll try to do at your band meeting but this is clearly a case of insecurity and that's something that's not best addressed in a group setting.
Simply complex...(because of your wifes relationship) but...
Team player - wow sounds great, we will sound better, be more flexible and as a result
get better paying and better gigs with the addition.
Characteristic - Humble, selfless, its not all about me.
Non team player - I will not always be in the spot light. I will not walk off stage for a single song if
there is no part for me. I can not accept this.
Defect - Ego, pride, fear, selfish. No humility at all.
Will eventually effect band in a negative way.
Which player would you rather have in your band ?
Team player - wow sounds great, we will sound better, be more flexible and as a result
get better paying and better gigs with the addition.
Characteristic - Humble, selfless, its not all about me.
Non team player - I will not always be in the spot light. I will not walk off stage for a single song if
there is no part for me. I can not accept this.
Defect - Ego, pride, fear, selfish. No humility at all.
Will eventually effect band in a negative way.
Which player would you rather have in your band ?
Insecurity in a band member is a problem. Pulling that member aside to make them feel secure takes time away from the musical objective, and pulling one member aside to coddle feelings can cause division within the band. Think about it... an insecure musician? Most musicians I know have egos the size of Texas.
The major problem is the delicate situation between the singer/client of two fingers wife. It's like selling a used car to a neighbor, or letting a family member move into your house "for only a few days," you just don't do it. I'm sure two fingers didn't see this coming, though.
Since the keyboard player is a super agreeable guy, maybe he'd agree to lay low in the band for a while, singing background and such until the female singer eventually leaves. If her ego is as fragile as it seems, it's only a matter of time before that happens.
I hope it all works out for good.
So @two fingers , how did the band meeting go?
Without knowing her personally, I can somewhat understand the insecurity. All I do is play bass. One of the first people we let into the band many years ago wasted no time dropping hints that her daughter played bass when I had to work one day. You bet I felt a bit threatened. I think its natural when you are a single instrument player, or just a singer. Again, at first I was glad she was there at first but...
I hope it works out for you @two fingers. It's rare to find one good singer. Two in one band, one a female? That'd be awesome.
I hope it works out for you @two fingers. It's rare to find one good singer. Two in one band, one a female? That'd be awesome.
Update!
The impossible happened.
The meeting got canceled due to a couple of last-minute scheduling conflicts.
I couldn't let it go another day without a resolution.
So I called her.
It started off a bit rough. I didn't "lay into her" but I wasn't pulling any punches either. It started off with my explaining that I thought this whole mess was ridiculous, but that I thought the potential of this band warrented at least talking it through before throwing in the towel. (Up until that point she had no idea that this was serious enough that I would consider leaving the band.)
So off we went.
I first asked her to express in her own words what was bugging her. I listened.
Then I explained that nothing I was about to say was personal. Keys guy and I are friendly, but not friends. We don't throw cookouts or double date with the wives or anything. We had no relationship outside of music. But we did respect each other's work and had wanted to be in a band together for years.
Then I laid out my case for keeping him point by point. After the first point, the most amazing thing happened. She said "Well, when you put it that way, it makes sense."
"Hold up. We might be getting somewhere, Twofer. Back off on the attitude and let's see if we can hammer this out" said the voice in my head....or ONE of the voices in my head anyway.
Then I explained another point, and another.
Then I asked if the mystery guy had ever actually WORKED with the keys guy (turns out he had not.)
Both of us lightened up. Both of us laid out exactly how we feel about it. And both of us agreed to move forward WITH the keys guy. (The only condition was that she reeeeeeally wants to sing that dayum Chris Stapleton version of Tennessee Whiskey. Honestly, he does it better but she doesn't suck at it. So I can live with that.)
So, after the first gig, we'll talk again specifically about how well he fits in the band (which I have every reason to believe with be extremely well).
That's fair.
He's in the band. He will never even know we talked. And if he somehow acts like a dipstick I'll have to eat crow and send him packing myself (but I don't think that'll happen).
Situation resolved for now!
Fingers crossed!
Thanks for letting me vent everyone. Your attention and advice has been appreciated.
Now let's go sing some harmonies!
The impossible happened.
The meeting got canceled due to a couple of last-minute scheduling conflicts.
I couldn't let it go another day without a resolution.
So I called her.
It started off a bit rough. I didn't "lay into her" but I wasn't pulling any punches either. It started off with my explaining that I thought this whole mess was ridiculous, but that I thought the potential of this band warrented at least talking it through before throwing in the towel. (Up until that point she had no idea that this was serious enough that I would consider leaving the band.)
So off we went.
I first asked her to express in her own words what was bugging her. I listened.
Then I explained that nothing I was about to say was personal. Keys guy and I are friendly, but not friends. We don't throw cookouts or double date with the wives or anything. We had no relationship outside of music. But we did respect each other's work and had wanted to be in a band together for years.
Then I laid out my case for keeping him point by point. After the first point, the most amazing thing happened. She said "Well, when you put it that way, it makes sense."
"Hold up. We might be getting somewhere, Twofer. Back off on the attitude and let's see if we can hammer this out" said the voice in my head....or ONE of the voices in my head anyway.
Then I explained another point, and another.
Then I asked if the mystery guy had ever actually WORKED with the keys guy (turns out he had not.)
Both of us lightened up. Both of us laid out exactly how we feel about it. And both of us agreed to move forward WITH the keys guy. (The only condition was that she reeeeeeally wants to sing that dayum Chris Stapleton version of Tennessee Whiskey. Honestly, he does it better but she doesn't suck at it. So I can live with that.)
So, after the first gig, we'll talk again specifically about how well he fits in the band (which I have every reason to believe with be extremely well).
That's fair.
He's in the band. He will never even know we talked. And if he somehow acts like a dipstick I'll have to eat crow and send him packing myself (but I don't think that'll happen).
Situation resolved for now!
Fingers crossed!
Thanks for letting me vent everyone. Your attention and advice has been appreciated.
Now let's go sing some harmonies!
Last edited:
Update!
The impossible happened.
The meeting got canceled due to a couple of last-minute scheduling conflicts.
I couldn't let it go another without a resolution.
So I called her.
It started off a bit rough. I didn't "lay into her" but I wasn't pulling any punches either. It started off with my explaining that I thought this whole mess was ridiculous, but that I thought the potential of this band warrented at least talking it through before thrpwing in the towel. (Up until that point she had no odea thay this was serious enough that I would consider leaving the band.)
So off we went.
I first asked her to express in her own words what was bugging her. I listened.
Then I explained that nothing I was about to say was personal. Keys guy and I are friendly, but not friends. We don't throw cookouts or double date with the wives or anything. We had no relationship outside of music. But we did respect each other's work and had wanted to be in a band together for years.
Then I laid out my case for keeping him point by point. After the first point, the most amazing thing happened. She said "Well, when you put it that way, it makes sense."
"Hold up. We might be getting somewhere, Twofer. Back off on the attitude and let's see if we can hammer this out" said the voice in my head....or ONE of the voices in my head anyway.
Then I explained another point, and another.
Then I asked if the mystery guy had ever actually WORKED with the keys guy (turns out he had not.)
Both of us lightened up. Both of us laid out exactly how we feel about it. And both of us agreed to move forward WITH the keys guy. (The only condition was that she reeeeeeally wants to sing that dayum Chris Stapleton version of Tennessee Whiskey. Honestly, he does it better be she doesn't suck at it. So I can live with that.)
So, after the first gig, we'll talk again specifically about how well he fits in the band (which I have every reason to believe with be extremely well).
That's fair.
He's in the band. He will never even know we talked. And if he somehow acts like a dipstick I'll have to eat crow and send him packing myself (but I don't think that'll happen).
Situation resolved for now!
Fingers crossed!
Thanks for letting me vent everyone. Your attention and advice has been appreciated.
Now let's go sing some harmonies!
Dust off those Fleetwood Mac albums! John McVie is the greatest. I'm a little jealous. We can't find one damn singer, and you've got two.
