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Dumb question: Pino doesn't read music?

#61
These threads always veer into "Reasons why I don't need to read". I know there seem to be loads of people out there that never get asked to read anything but I'm not exaggerating when I say that every single call I've had in the past 15 years has involved reading in some way. Either on stage or via a bunch of charts delivered before hand. Before I was accepting those kind of gigs it was very much a case of "Here's a setlist" along with recordings or I'd be in a band writing our own material. Obviously, those band situations don't require reading in anyway.

People can obviously do what they want, but I know that if I was starting out again and looking for advice on what areas to develop when looking to be the best bass player I can be, I'd be pretty annoyed if, several years later, I found myself lacking in certain areas because someone had told me that a massively useful skill like sight reading was pointless or unnecessary. It's great to have role models like Pino or Entwistle or McCartney or Sheehan but surely it's better to learn from the best and most useful aspects of these players, adding to your own unique voice, rather than aspiring to ignorance. I might be a nobody compared to those big names but I know that my playing only improved as a result of studying and learning to read. Pino Palladino would still be Pino Palladino if he'd learned to read music. He'd simply be a stronger player in that area. It just so happens he's happy with the gigs and style he has.
 
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#62
Pino has great ears. He hears the chords and knows the appropriate notes to play. He knows all the notes and knows what to play. But ultimately he has incredible feel (and tone).

Some of the sessions I do they give you a chord chart, but rarely a written out bass part. You get hired because usually they want you to come up with cool parts.
 
#63
markjsmithbass said:
It's great to have role models like Pino or Entwistle or McCartney or Sheehan but surely it's better to learn from the best and most useful aspects of these players, adding to your own unique voice, rather than aspiring to ignorance.
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What is ironic is that for the most part it's not the role models telling people not to bother learning to read, or learn theory. It's always the people that can't read and don't know theory telling everyone else it's a waste of time. I guess they need to justify their ignorance.

For the record, I don't care if someone doesn't want to learn; I just get tired of them trying to discourage other people from learning by telling them it's a waste of time, or they'll never use their knowledge.
 
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#67
What a great thread this is. I watched John Mayer's where the light is tonight. Y'all inspired me - played along with Pino Palladino. We're mates in bass now ;) I'll be doing that again, mark my words. At least I could read this glorious thread. Thanks again y'all for the positivity. Inspirational! And, three cheers for the mighty mighty Mister P!
 
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#69
#72
MDBass said:
Sir Paul couldn't read music, I don't think Sklar does either, and something tells me neither did Jamerson.

Some people just have phenomenal ears.
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Lee Sklar and James Jamerson could (and can) read fly specks on the wall from 30 feet. Sklar in particular studied piano for many years before he ever touched a bass, and he consistently stresses the importance of being able to read notation for studio and other work.
 
#73
Perhaps someone should ask him, but I believe he can read - I worked with a keytard/bandleader who used to use him before he was famous and this guy's stuff was charts all the way...

Maybe he came up with those lines himself - like Carol Kaye did for Whitchitaw Lineman?. Or maybe he did have to sight read the intro to "Wherever I lay my hat" on the session. I, like a few other bass players that came after, certainty had to :)


Flysh*t @ 30 feet ? No worries !
 
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#74
I suspect (but can't say for sure) that in a field of endeavor that requires a range of highly developed skills, Pino is just reluctant to claim to be able to read, at least at the level he considers to be the minimum standard in his field. Just conjecture on my part.

The same thing happens in the language profession. I have a colleague who will tell you that he really only speaks Russian, English and Portuguese (his working professional languages) but I have heard him carrying on seemingly effortless conversations in Russian, English, Portuguese, Ukrainian, German, Spanish, Italian, and French.
 
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#75
I have learned to basically read charts. I dont "site read". So yes, I would not be asked to play a score on "Fiddler on the Roof" I suppose. If you know your scales..minor...major..etc...and know what other scales work within those modes you can do fine in many cases. I once walked into a session and the put a chart in front of me and I thought.."oh no"...but..I looked at the scales...0ne or two bars...feel...time count etc and some how pulled it off. At the end..they all thought I was some master reader!!...ha!...It may not work all of the time but it is realistic. Know your basic theory...but first...know your neck and know how to play that bass....
 
#76
There are always the folks who get straight As without studying, are physical specimans without diet or exercise AND excel in music without reading. People seem to like pointing these types of things out in hopes of justifying their faults rather than working to improve them. A typical example is a lazy young kid who isn't doing well in school pointing out the billionaires who dropped out of school.

Pino's ability to have a type of photographing memory where he can listen to a song and know it is very special, as is perfect pitch or Mozart's ability to compose a symphony in his head and write it down without playing it. For us regular folks aquiring and improving on as many skills as possible is only going to help.
 
#77
There are two things that get me work above and beyond bass playing...being able to sing, and being able to read. I am called upon to read at least once a month in my regular band, usually more like 4 or 5 times. These reading gigs almost always pay better than our other gigs, and by better I mean at least double. In addition, occasionally I get paid extra to write charts for artists I work with. I am 53. My rock star sell-by date expired a long time ago and I have no illusions about it happening at 53. But every time I see someone my age working a crap job for no money, I thank my lucky stars that I learned how to read music, otherwise I would not be here. Yes, it's no guarantee you will have a decent career, but if not for reading music, I wouldn't even have gotten in the door on that gig and a few others I do.

Now if you choose not to read, that's fine by me, but what I highly resent is the idea put forth in this thread that because you're a reader, all you can do is ape what's on the chart and have no creativity on your own while a non-reader is full of creativity. That is the biggest steaming pile of monkey crap that I have ever seen. Want me to come up with a good part for your song myself by ear rather than read lines? No problem. Want me to play with conviction and enthusiasm? No problem. Want me to make these notes that I have never seen before sound like I've played them a million times? No problem. The only people who think that not reading makes their playing more special are non-readers. Had Pino learned how to read, he would still be the exact same bass player he's always been and still been just as creative and talented.

Also, as said earlier, it's time to accept the idea that people who are able to make sense of music without reading are flukes. The vast majority of people who don't read end up not playing music and sticking their instruments under their bed till their spouse makes them sell it so they can move their own junk under the bed. And those who can make sense of music without reading always teach themselves music theory in other ways. You think Pino can't find a C# anywhere on his bass if you ask him just because he can't read? Think again. Think Pino doesn't know how a diminished chord is formed? Think again.

So if you want to try and sell that bill of goods on here, just remember that you're only fooling yourself and maybe a few other non-readers. Those of us who can read know it's a load.
 
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#78
JimmyM said:
There are two things that get me work above and beyond bass playing...being able to sing, and being able to read. I am called upon to read at least once a month in my regular band, usually more like 4 or 5 times. These reading gigs almost always pay better than our other gigs, and by better I mean at least double. In addition, occasionally I get paid extra to write charts for artists I work with. I am 53. My rock star sell-by date expired a long time ago and I have no illusions about it happening at 53. But every time I see someone my age working a crap job for no money, I thank my lucky stars that I learned how to read music, otherwise I would not be here. Yes, it's no guarantee you will have a decent career, but if not for reading music, I wouldn't even have gotten in the door on that gig and a few others I do.

Now if you choose not to read, that's fine by me, but what I highly resent is the idea put forth in this thread that because you're a reader, all you can do is ape what's on the chart and have no creativity on your own while a non-reader is full of creativity. That is the biggest steaming pile of monkey crap that I have ever seen. Want me to come up with a good part for your song myself by ear rather than read lines? No problem. Want me to play with conviction and enthusiasm? No problem. Want me to make these notes that I have never seen before sound like I've played them a million times? No problem. The only people who think that not reading makes their playing more special are non-readers. Had Pino learned how to read, he would still be the exact same bass player he's always been and still been just as creative and talented.

Also, as said earlier, it's time to accept the idea that people who are able to make sense of music without reading are flukes. The vast majority of people who don't read end up not playing music and sticking their instruments under their bed till their spouse makes them sell it so they can move their own junk under the bed. And those who can make sense of music without reading always teach themselves music theory in other ways. You think Pino can't find a C# anywhere on his bass if you ask him just because he can't read? Think again. Think Pino doesn't know how a diminished chord is formed? Think again.

So if you want to try and sell that bill of goods on here, just remember that you're only fooling yourself and maybe a few other non-readers. Those of us who can read know it's a load.
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Very unusual for laconic JimmyM to be so verbose in his comment, but I really liked what JimmyM said.
 
#79
I wish I could 'like' this twice. Eloquently put, soon to be followed by yet another, "Oh yea, well Paul McCartney can't read and he did OK." :rollno:
JimmyM said:
There are two things that get me work above and beyond bass playing...being able to sing, and being able to read. I am called upon to read at least once a month in my regular band, usually more like 4 or 5 times. These reading gigs almost always pay better than our other gigs, and by better I mean at least double. In addition, occasionally I get paid extra to write charts for artists I work with. I am 53. My rock star sell-by date expired a long time ago and I have no illusions about it happening at 53. But every time I see someone my age working a crap job for no money, I thank my lucky stars that I learned how to read music, otherwise I would not be here. Yes, it's no guarantee you will have a decent career, but if not for reading music, I wouldn't even have gotten in the door on that gig and a few others I do.

Now if you choose not to read, that's fine by me, but what I highly resent is the idea put forth in this thread that because you're a reader, all you can do is ape what's on the chart and have no creativity on your own while a non-reader is full of creativity. That is the biggest steaming pile of monkey crap that I have ever seen. Want me to come up with a good part for your song myself by ear rather than read lines? No problem. Want me to play with conviction and enthusiasm? No problem. Want me to make these notes that I have never seen before sound like I've played them a million times? No problem. The only people who think that not reading makes their playing more special are non-readers. Had Pino learned how to read, he would still be the exact same bass player he's always been and still been just as creative and talented.

Also, as said earlier, it's time to accept the idea that people who are able to make sense of music without reading are flukes. The vast majority of people who don't read end up not playing music and sticking their instruments under their bed till their spouse makes them sell it so they can move their own junk under the bed. And those who can make sense of music without reading always teach themselves music theory in other ways. You think Pino can't find a C# anywhere on his bass if you ask him just because he can't read? Think again. Think Pino doesn't know how a diminished chord is formed? Think again.

So if you want to try and sell that bill of goods on here, just remember that you're only fooling yourself and maybe a few other non-readers. Those of us who can read know it's a load.
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