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Dumbing down: a slight rant
- Thread starter dougjwray
- Start date
I have on several occasions told the band that if I play it wrong other bass players will think I don't know what I'm doing... then explained that (as an example) they may like to play a C chord, but the bass is playing the 3rd, the fifth, or in some cases... the chord is supposed to be an Am... And the bass is on A
Over time though... I've learned that much like this overly wordy post, there's a way to remedy the situation when they say they think something would sound better if I played a different note.
I use this word...…
"No".
Over time though... I've learned that much like this overly wordy post, there's a way to remedy the situation when they say they think something would sound better if I played a different note.
I use this word...…
"No".
Tell us how you really feel, come on now, don't hold back. 
I recently realized that I've been posting some grumpy old man comments... Sorry about that, but here's one more.
This is a companion to the "repetitious parts are a drag" thread.
Have you run into situations where your bandmates asked to dumb down a song? One example: A few years ago, a band I was in wanted to try "She Said She Said" by the Beatles. The bridge has time changes (listening in my head right now): three bars of 4/4, one bar of 2/4, seven bars of 3/4. The guys were tripping over it, so for the next rehearsal, I wrote out lead sheets and sort of tried to conduct. No good. Of course, no one but me had actually played along with the recording; they just thought "cool song" and went for an internet lyric sheet, which naturally had nothing about timing.
The guys suggested that we simply make it all 4/4. I think one look at my face made them decide to jettison the tune, instead.
Talent had a habit of finding it’s own level. Time to move on.
IMO, all posts are ok. But if you post, be prepared to get your nose tweaked.
Pop/rock is kinda weird in that everybody has the radio version stuck in their head, so any variance is heard as "wrong." In jazz/standards land we change it up all the time: intros, keys, chords, melodies, it's all fair game.
When I was coming up playing rock in the 80s I worked at a hotel with a lounge that booked top 40 cover bands. I still have mad respect for groups that can do those note-for-note covers one after another all night long. Not my jam, but there's an undeniable talent, work ethic and skill set required to pull that off.
When I was coming up playing rock in the 80s I worked at a hotel with a lounge that booked top 40 cover bands. I still have mad respect for groups that can do those note-for-note covers one after another all night long. Not my jam, but there's an undeniable talent, work ethic and skill set required to pull that off.
So Anyway, I would hope that everyone would try to play to their ability, and get a little better along the way.
And getting back to the OP, even Beatles didn't try to play She Said, She Said live. One of the reasons they quit touring was that they knew they couldn't recreate a live version of their studio songs.
And getting back to the OP, even Beatles didn't try to play She Said, She Said live. One of the reasons they quit touring was that they knew they couldn't recreate a live version of their studio songs.
IME there is a distinct and audible difference between talented, tasteful arranging and dumbing-down.
Usually quite easy to hear which groups play a verse , phrase or entire tune differently because they can vs those who do so because they can't.
Usually quite easy to hear which groups play a verse , phrase or entire tune differently because they can vs those who do so because they can't.
True, but just to nitpick, "She Said She Said" is one which they could have played live. It's a two guitar, bass, drums song. The things they couldn't do were the ones with more orchestration, like the tape loops in "Tomorrow Never Knows" (to pick another from "Revolver", the particular period we're discussing).
Oh, it’s been. Leaving out bridges, omitting “rap sections” and ignoring any variations between verses that only happen once has been a way of life for some, for some time.
What REALLY kills me is subbing in bands who’ve been “dumbing down“ songs for so long they assume they’re playing the song correctly.
Yes, and just try to imagine that song with the kinks ironed out.
Or "We Can Work it Out" or "Nowadays Clancy Can't Even Sing."
buldog5151bass
Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.
Some things can be faked convincingly. But in general, it's better to do simple songs well than challenging songs #_$#_--#.
Didn’t read the whole thread, but I will issue this warning:
Don’t even SUGGEST a bowdlerized version of “Whipping Post” if you can’t play the intro correctly. Or if you do, make sure the premises are free of sharp objects, loaded firearms, or ME.
Thanks in advance.
Your pal,
Cliffy
Don’t even SUGGEST a bowdlerized version of “Whipping Post” if you can’t play the intro correctly. Or if you do, make sure the premises are free of sharp objects, loaded firearms, or ME.
Thanks in advance.
Your pal,
Cliffy
In my opinion when it come to a bar band, as long as everyone plays it the same it usually doesn’t matter. The 1 or 2 people in the place that will nitpick don’t make the majority. As long as it still sounds tight. I promise you out of 100 people in a bar maybe 1 might think “Hey you changed the time signature in song X”. Most likely no. Changing lyrics, changing iconic leads, changing tempos drastically all can have a big impact on crowd reaction. But one small part of a song? Prob not. If it bothers the players I get it but don’t think the crowd will notice. They won’t. They are too busy having a good time.
Now a Tribute band? Different story. If you are going to dress the part, act the part ect you better play the part as well. If not what’s the point? If I for one paid good money to see a Tribute Band I wanna close my eyes and hear Rush, Metallica or whoever played just like the real deal. Or better even.
Now a Tribute band? Different story. If you are going to dress the part, act the part ect you better play the part as well. If not what’s the point? If I for one paid good money to see a Tribute Band I wanna close my eyes and hear Rush, Metallica or whoever played just like the real deal. Or better even.
How come you didn’t, don’t other poster’s comments matter? The thread’s only 4 pages long right now.
Playing a simple song well is different than what the original poster described though.
Have heard way too many bands play Satisfaction where the bass simply doubled the guitar, verbatim.
I agree with your band- if I am playing live- steady 4/4 keeps the people dancing. Weird little time changes are great for recording bands, not so much live bands.I recently realized that I've been posting some grumpy old man comments... Sorry about that, but here's one more.
This is a companion to the "repetitious parts are a drag" thread.
Have you run into situations where your bandmates asked to dumb down a song? One example: A few years ago, a band I was in wanted to try "She Said She Said" by the Beatles. The bridge has time changes (listening in my head right now): three bars of 4/4, one bar of 2/4, seven bars of 3/4. The guys were tripping over it, so for the next rehearsal, I wrote out lead sheets and sort of tried to conduct. No good. Of course, no one but me had actually played along with the recording; they just thought "cool song" and went for an internet lyric sheet, which naturally had nothing about timing.
The guys suggested that we simply make it all 4/4. I think one look at my face made them decide to jettison the tune, instead.
PLus, I doubt the Beatles would have played that song note-for note had they continued live concerts.
Recall many decades ago in AP English trying to cheat by not reading all of Beowulf
or Heart of Darkness, ad infinitum.
" You are only cheating yourself" said my mom.
Since joining TB, have read every post on every thread I choose to click in order to gain context and not miss the post that may have actually clarified or answered the OP on page 3 of 31
I still make ill informed replies but not for lack of reading.
