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Dumbing down: a slight rant

#41
Most live Rock shows are a dumbing down of a band's songs. One quick example that comes to my mind were The Who. Their studio recordings were high productions but their live shows were stripped down to the bone.

A modified version (dumbed down) of a song can be interesting and a welcome change over the original.

Trying to perfectly nail guitar riffs, bass lines and drum beats exactly like a recording isn't very practical. I think that's one big reason why tribute bands sound so 2nd rate.
 
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#42
bassdude51 said:
Most live Rock shows are a dumbing down of a band's songs. One quick example that comes to my mind were The Who. Their studio recordings were high productions but their live shows were stripped down to the bone.

A modified version (dumbed down) of a song can be interesting and a welcome change over the original.

Trying to perfectly nail guitar riffs, bass lines and drum beats exactly like a recording isn't very practical. I think that's one big reason why tribute bands sound so 2nd rate.
Click to expand...

The ones that do their homework, are the first rate tributes. That's the difference.
 
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#43
If the band had worked through it and got it down, everybody learns. That instills more confidence to take on other more demanding arrangements. But to just give it the "meh"... No. Forget that. It will just hold you back.
 
#44
I’m in a nice side project (with a horn section) that plays about a half-dozen times per year, playing eclectic tunes at catered events. One song we do is Chicago’s ‘Does Anybody Really Know What Time It Is?’, including the very elaborate intro, which has an extended section of 5/8 that changes to 6/8 before going into the light swing of the main song. The keyboardist cannot get it down to save his life. There is no way to dumb it down. He tries to force it into 6/8 throughout. It sounds like hell. Those 5/8 measures are vital. The rest of the band does its best to tune him out. It makes me crazy. Either get it down or sit down. But with this one, sitting out is not an option. I’m not the leader, or I would’ve been looking to replace this guy.
 
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#47
40Hz said:
I don’t insist on tribute band level note for note when it comes to a cover tune. Nor do I object to putting your own stylistic spin on someone else’s song. That can result in some pleasant surprises if it’s done right, the key word being: if.

But changing the basic structure of a song (including one of your own) purely because your band is too lazy to learn an arrangement?

No. Just no.

You’re not being a grumpy old man not wanting to dumb things down. You’re showing a little pride and self-respect as a musician refusing to go along with it.
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^ This.

With my current band I have refused to play one song because the drummer wanted to dumb it down.

He is quite capable of playing things correctly but he can't be bothered to listen to anything more than once. There are lots of songs that that we play that would sound a whole lot better if he played then a bit closer to the original.

We rehearse at his house, if you arrive a few minutes early you can catch him "learning" (having a quick listen to) the songs that the guitarist and I may have spent hours working on. He always says "I've been a bit busy this week and not had chance to do any work on them", yea, right, every time!
 
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#49
Lagado said:
Always try and put yourself in a band with equal if not better musicians than you.
Click to expand...
If everyone thinks like this (equal = utopic) =>
1200px-Impossible_staircase.svg.png
 
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#50
I actually don't mind "dumbed down" nearly as much as "making our own interpretation" by musicians who think they're too good for that "simple" song. Typically with out-of-style instruments like using a 5-string active coffee table bass on a Beatles song.

Of course, if it's a pro tribute band anything other than 100% is unacceptable. But if it's an amateur band with limited skills I don't mind dumbed down at all. Just go ahead and have fun!!! It's the "we're too good for the song" attitude by (supposedly) pro musicians that gets to me. Whenever a band of skilled musicians RUINS a classic song with a tasteless "interpretation" because they think they can do it "better" I'm out.:vomit:
 
#51
One dumbing down example that comes to mind is Ring Of Fire in trying to prevent a trainwreck. One singer I work with occasionally loves playing this song at weddings because it’s always a hootenanny. He always says “just straighten it out” in order to deal with the sometimes random bars of 2 in those country type songs. Heck I even think the original version has a little hiccup - it’s kinda hard to tell!
 
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#52
jpmcbride said:
Sorry, but I have to disagree on this one. There's nothing sacred about a particular version of a song. If the arrangement needs to be modified for the band to be able to perform it well, then I have no issue with it. I played in a duo for almost 10 years, starting when we were both relative beginners and we definitely modified song arrangements to work around our limitations as musicians. Maybe there were a few people in the audience judging us for it :), but the rest of the audience was enjoying the music. We got lots of gigs, and people told us how much they loved the music. We got stage time, learned and got better, and entertained a lot of people.

My motto was "Its better to play it simple and good, than complicated and bad".
Click to expand...

That's how I see it also. I play in 3 different bands: one is a tribute band, we don't want to "dumb it down" for obvious reasons. Another band is more pop/rock oriented (covers) and on some songs we modified a few things and I'm completely ok with that. The last project I'm in is a classic rock cover band, musicians are a less skilled, and yes I suggested many times on a few songs that we should simplify them, and everybody is ok with that. In a cover band, with the multitude of different songs from different bands, I don't care much about the "note for note" approach. Signature lines you have no choice to learn them correctly, but the rest it doesn't matter to me. The whole band has to sound good, it ain't about me or what I think as it's a band effort to sound the best possible.

Now, if I wasn't happy with that, I would just move on to work other musicians. I am no one to "ridicule" or give "the look" to other musicians about their abilities/work ethics. If you're not happy with the folks you're playing with, just move on, there's plenty of talented/better musicians to play with. Me, I don't need to be on the "same level" as everyone because I view the band as an ensemble that will do all that's possible to sound good, dumbing it down or not.
 
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#53
dougjwray said:
I recently realized that I've been posting some grumpy old man comments... Sorry about that, but here's one more. :)
This is a companion to the "repetitious parts are a drag" thread.
Have you run into situations where your bandmates asked to dumb down a song? One example: A few years ago, a band I was in wanted to try "She Said She Said" by the Beatles. The bridge has time changes (listening in my head right now): three bars of 4/4, one bar of 2/4, seven bars of 3/4. The guys were tripping over it, so for the next rehearsal, I wrote out lead sheets and sort of tried to conduct. No good. Of course, no one but me had actually played along with the recording; they just thought "cool song" and went for an internet lyric sheet, which naturally had nothing about timing.
The guys suggested that we simply make it all 4/4. I think one look at my face made them decide to jettison the tune, instead.
Click to expand...
I don't like doing that AT ALL. I've seen bands do this and it just makes them look so amateur, so unprofessional. Learn the parts, practice it until it's right or simply don't play it at all.
 
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#54
dougjwray said:
I recently realized that I've been posting some grumpy old man comments... Sorry about that, but here's one more. :)
This is a companion to the "repetitious parts are a drag" thread.
Have you run into situations where your bandmates asked to dumb down a song? One example: A few years ago, a band I was in wanted to try "She Said She Said" by the Beatles. The bridge has time changes (listening in my head right now): three bars of 4/4, one bar of 2/4, seven bars of 3/4. The guys were tripping over it, so for the next rehearsal, I wrote out lead sheets and sort of tried to conduct. No good. Of course, no one but me had actually played along with the recording; they just thought "cool song" and went for an internet lyric sheet, which naturally had nothing about timing.
The guys suggested that we simply make it all 4/4. I think one look at my face made them decide to jettison the tune, instead.
Click to expand...
People who can't count should probably go back to kindergarten.
 
#56
dougjwray said:
The bridge has time changes (listening in my head right now): three bars of 4/4, one bar of 2/4, seven bars of 3/4.
Click to expand...
Try it as TWO bars of 4/4 (She said you dont understand what I said / I said) and then it's NINE bars of 3/4 (Starting with "No no no, you're wrong")

Code: 
The meter may be erratic but it's not without its own pattern. This little chart indicates
the succession of measures and the number of beats in each:
 
   She said "you don't understand what I said".  I said    [ 4 + 4 ]
   "No, no, no, you're wrong. When I was a boy,        [ 3 + 3 + 3 ]
   Everything was right.                                   [ 6 + 3 ]
   Everything was right."                                  [ 6 + 3 ]
Click to expand...

More details here.
 
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#59
Funky Phantom said:
Well, you’re playing the Beatles. Most non bass players who like them aren’t really into
rhthym, that’s why they like the Beatles. If they understood more syncopated grooves
you’d be playing James Brown, or T.O.P., or something.
In a guitar band, bass doesn’t really matter.
Click to expand...
Well, mostly, but not exactly. Lennon, in particular, did like meter changes. Think of "All You Need is Love", "I Want You (She's So Heavy)", "Happiness is a Warm Gun", etc.
 
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