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eBay Scammer strikes again
- Thread starter Bolt91
- Start date
You're right.
I've seen that exact same listing before.
As much as the seller disgusts me, the buyers have earned even more of my contempt. How stupid do you have to be, to bid on a bass (a vintage Jazz, no less!), and not even bother to do your homework, or notice the tell-tale signs of it being a fake (i.e. the terrible relic job).
The Webright stamp on the neck, is, however, period correct for 70's Fenders.
I'm just amazed at how dense people can be sometimes.
I'm tempted to do just that and keep some poor shmo from getting ripped off. When he escalates for non-payment, I will prove to eBay it's a fake.
svtb15
Inactive
- Mar 22, 2004
- 13,004
- 4,741
- Disclosures
- I play it all. Whatever works for the gig. Q+
I dont know.. look at the tuners real good.. the seem to have more teeth on them. just like the ones on my reissue.. and not like my 63...
I think the tuners are bogus.. infact it is probably a reissue with a real bad relic job.. just my opinion
I think the tuners are bogus.. infact it is probably a reissue with a real bad relic job.. just my opinion
Wow, if I EVER get into the true vintage market, I'm very glad to know I can turn to this forum for authentication!
So many small details that I would NEVER have known such as the pickup spacing, type of tuner, marker dot material! WOW.
And the one thing I WOULD have questioned would've been the "webright" stamp on the neck. I was guessing that "webright" would be a current aftermarket supplier making vintage style necks. There are so many parts makers out there, I just figured webright was a brand I hadnt seen yet.
Shows what I know!
Hats off to you guys, you sure know your stuff. Too bad there's no way to contact the bidders to let them know what kind of a piece of garbage they're bidding on.
So many small details that I would NEVER have known such as the pickup spacing, type of tuner, marker dot material! WOW.
And the one thing I WOULD have questioned would've been the "webright" stamp on the neck. I was guessing that "webright" would be a current aftermarket supplier making vintage style necks. There are so many parts makers out there, I just figured webright was a brand I hadnt seen yet.
Shows what I know!
Hats off to you guys, you sure know your stuff. Too bad there's no way to contact the bidders to let them know what kind of a piece of garbage they're bidding on.
Course we could start a "Twitter Page" that lists all the scams of the week and would kind of link back here... Any one searches Ebay, etc..
Jim Carr
Dr. Jim
- Jan 21, 2006
- 16,223
- 7,614
- 76
- Disclosures
- fEARful Kool-Aid dispensing liberal academic card-carrying union member Musicians Local 72-147
The truss rod nut on that neck is not a fender nut, and the hole has been modified. Even if it is a Fender neck, which is doubtful, it is troubled.
BTW, where it gets really interesting is when you actually get to play and inspect an older instrument. I think it really helps train one's eye for instruments that have a certain kind of integrity.
By that I mean that we have to face the fact that most vintage basses on the market have been in the hands of plenty of knowledgeable and yes, at times greedy folks. These instruments are often a collection of parts from several instruments. Spotting that doesn't mean an instrument is bad, it just means that it has a more complicated history than "I found this 1963 P-bass in my Uncle Hector's storage space."
IMHO, the majority of vintage Fender basses sit near the middle of a continuum that ranges from "pristine/all original" to "a collection of possibly aged parts that theoretically could be found together." This is due to the fact that old instruments have frequently had repairs and minor modifications, none of which are a big deal, but do eventually reveal themselves. Signs of age can be faked pretty well, but most of the scammers don't know enough to do a good job--and I'm not talking about hack jobs like the bass in the OP's first post. The greedy knowledgeable scammers are more subtle. They start with a more significant amount of real vintage material than our Jakarta crook. It just may all come from different basses.
Dating instruments is basically about making a case with as many pieces of evidence and detailed observations as possible.
The OP is right to scream "Fake!" at the Erik Guitars bass, yet there are much finer degrees of fakery present in a large percentage of Vintage sales on Ebay, IMHO. Even many reputable dealers are not eager to reveal all they know about vintage instruments in their inventory.
Yet, IMHO, now is a good time to think of buying an old instrument, if you have the funds. They are dropping in price due to economic conditions, the appearance of many good substitutes, rising Fender quality, and the now widely mastered art of building new relics, practiced by skilled finish artists and even large companies like Fender.
The scammers are always with us, but as vintage prices ease up, they may move on to other tricks. All IMHO.
reported.
at first i thought it was real as well, but luckily after reading your posts and looking closer it definately is a fake.
almost looks like a jerry rigged Nash with decals and fake neck stamps.
at first i thought it was real as well, but luckily after reading your posts and looking closer it definately is a fake.
almost looks like a jerry rigged Nash with decals and fake neck stamps.
In the antiques business there are 3 levels of fakes. I imagine the same thing generally applies to the guitar world. From the easiest to most difficult to spot:
Tier 1. Sweat Shop Fake. - These are fakes that are obviously made in an assembly line fashion, usually overseas. They try to duplicate fine handwork and aging in an assembly line process. These are very easy to spot, as the entire manufacturing process and, as a result, the end product, is quite poor. These are usually made to fool tourists in foreign countries.
Tier 2. Professional Fake. - This is when someone takes a fine made modern replica (like a fender reissue) and performs aging processes in order to make it look like an actual antique. They will remove anything that gives it away as a modern remake and modify it to look as close to an actual relic as possible. They are usually done individualy by hand, by a professional con-artist. That is exactly what this bass is. They are usually easy for an expert or enthusiast to spot, because they just don't actually look 'old', but it can be very difficult for the general public to tell the difference.
Tier 3 Fake. - A Real Fake. These are done by master craftsmen and when done well they are nearly impossible to spot. There are many predictions as to how much of the market consists of these fakes, but nobody knows for sure. They are expensive and time consuming to produce, so they are rarely made to imitate anything but the most desirable relics. The process involves taking parts from less desirable antiques and combining them with handcrafted fake parts and modifications to produce a highly valuable product from lesser valued antiques. In the guitar world I would imagine this would be similar to taking a 1970's mij lawsuit replica, and modifying it to look like an actual fender. These kinds of fakes are really hard to spot because they actually look naturally 'old' in all of the right ways, which is the most difficult part of faking. The more rare, and therefor more valuable the item is, often, the easier it is to fake. this is because it becomes difficult to find accurate documentation about the item or any duplicate in existence to use for comparison.
You might think there should be a fourth tier: a master craftsman constructing a fake from scratch, and then using advanced aging techniques to make it appear old. This is the common public perception of a fake, but the truth is that in reality these types of fakes almost never exist. The reason: it's just too expensive and time consuming to produce a passable fake this way. It can be done, and every once in a while a hobbyist or master craftsman will do it for fun, but these rarely show up on the black market, because there is no criminal profit motive for doing it in the first place.
Hope you guys found that interesting. Don't ask me how I know this stuff, as I am not at liberty to discuss.
Tier 1. Sweat Shop Fake. - These are fakes that are obviously made in an assembly line fashion, usually overseas. They try to duplicate fine handwork and aging in an assembly line process. These are very easy to spot, as the entire manufacturing process and, as a result, the end product, is quite poor. These are usually made to fool tourists in foreign countries.
Tier 2. Professional Fake. - This is when someone takes a fine made modern replica (like a fender reissue) and performs aging processes in order to make it look like an actual antique. They will remove anything that gives it away as a modern remake and modify it to look as close to an actual relic as possible. They are usually done individualy by hand, by a professional con-artist. That is exactly what this bass is. They are usually easy for an expert or enthusiast to spot, because they just don't actually look 'old', but it can be very difficult for the general public to tell the difference.
Tier 3 Fake. - A Real Fake. These are done by master craftsmen and when done well they are nearly impossible to spot. There are many predictions as to how much of the market consists of these fakes, but nobody knows for sure. They are expensive and time consuming to produce, so they are rarely made to imitate anything but the most desirable relics. The process involves taking parts from less desirable antiques and combining them with handcrafted fake parts and modifications to produce a highly valuable product from lesser valued antiques. In the guitar world I would imagine this would be similar to taking a 1970's mij lawsuit replica, and modifying it to look like an actual fender. These kinds of fakes are really hard to spot because they actually look naturally 'old' in all of the right ways, which is the most difficult part of faking. The more rare, and therefor more valuable the item is, often, the easier it is to fake. this is because it becomes difficult to find accurate documentation about the item or any duplicate in existence to use for comparison.
You might think there should be a fourth tier: a master craftsman constructing a fake from scratch, and then using advanced aging techniques to make it appear old. This is the common public perception of a fake, but the truth is that in reality these types of fakes almost never exist. The reason: it's just too expensive and time consuming to produce a passable fake this way. It can be done, and every once in a while a hobbyist or master craftsman will do it for fun, but these rarely show up on the black market, because there is no criminal profit motive for doing it in the first place.
Hope you guys found that interesting. Don't ask me how I know this stuff, as I am not at liberty to discuss.
I told him I was very interested, and would pay extra for shipping if he would send it to the USA. Also, i'd throw in an extra 100 bucks if he had the "original vintage" strtings! lol
He was probably salivating!
"Dear crockettnj,
Hi, original strings is missing. shipping is not a problem. regards, erik
- erik_guitars"
oh well... should I "string" him along?
I have a particular dislike for scammers.
He was probably salivating!
"Dear crockettnj,
Hi, original strings is missing. shipping is not a problem. regards, erik
- erik_guitars"
oh well... should I "string" him along?
I have a particular dislike for scammers.
10:40 AM with 33 bids, humm 
Apart from the quick link at the bottom of the add, there use to be another simple way to report fake and fraudulent adds, of witch EvilBay would investigate and act quickly on, but I can't find that link any more.
The scams I have seen on there over the years is incredible, that place as truly become Evil, and only EvilBays pocket book count
Apart from the quick link at the bottom of the add, there use to be another simple way to report fake and fraudulent adds, of witch EvilBay would investigate and act quickly on, but I can't find that link any more.
The scams I have seen on there over the years is incredible, that place as truly become Evil, and only EvilBays pocket book count
bongo was referring to the bass in the other link, not the one currently being discussed here.
