Ebay woes

[alaskaleftybass]

Wow. That sucks. I've sold a couple of things on reverb since their fees were cheaper, but that story scares me buying from reverb ever again. I guess if I have to buy a bass online, it will be on here. I hope the sellers are more honest here.

Even as a BUYER on Reverb, I've had a problem. I bought a brand new bass and it had a bad neck. Warped and would never line up with the strings. I was smart enough to do it through PayPal and once I realized Reverb was doing nothing for me, I opened a PayPal dispute. Boom! Money was frozen on the seller's side. Then PayPal tracked our emails and we finally came to a resolution. But as a buyer, my best bet for these kinds of things is PayPal. eBay isn't too bad either, they ALWAYS side with the buyer. The seller CAN'T leave negative feedback on a buyer.

And, you could always buy from Guitar Center online or online music stores. They often have a scratch and dent, you just have to watch for what you're looking for.

Don't worry too much, eBay has you covered. Just make sure to get a return tracking number.

 

[Member8675309]

Things may have changed - it's been a while since I've done anything like that. You might be talking about the 7-day (or is it 10?) waiting period, between the time you open a dispute and the time it closes. Either party can close the dispute early, or it will automatically close at the end of that period. THAT may be the point at which you get your refund.

I've only had a seller, maybe two, do the whole hold a refund bit out of 1000 plus EBay transactions. The last was earlier this year. A dispute was opened, everything taken care of on my part, but seller held my refund for DAYS until I said forget it, negative feedback for this guy. He then miraculously issued a refund maybe one hour later.

 

[Grahams Groove]

You ain't A.R. or you woulda read the whole tread first.

Haha. Well played, sir.

That seems like a really good idea. I think I will do that next time. I just never expected someone to not describe their item truthfully.

In all honesty, I didn't start doing it for fear of getting purposely screwed by a seller.

I ordered an expensive pedal via eBay a while back, and the packing job was the catalyst for this habit. It was a $200 "boutique" pedal. The seller didn't put any plastic wrap, padding, or protective material around the pedal itself. He threw it in the original manufacturer's box (which typically includes bubble wrap and a plastic bag when you get them new/direct), and slapped a shipping label directly on the outside of that box - which is usually sent from the manufacturer inside a larger, proper shipping box. This was during a rainy spring season, and the thing showed up rattling around freely inside a box that was wet and all but ruined.

I contacted the seller afterward, and he told me "you worry too much." That's true - I worry that other people lack common sense, and I don't wish to pay a penalty for their carelessness. Anyway...

I don't think most peoples' end-game is to screw others. However, this little ritual covers all the bases - dishonest sellers, careless shipping companies, and people who don't know how to package expensive or delicate items. Lesson learned.

 

[klejst]

May be a little late for putting in my $0.02, I too would say if you can look past it and the bass overall has nothing else wrong with it and the seller can be talked into refunding some money then I'd say that would be a good resolution.

 

[Handyman]

When you initiate a return ebay is automatically "involved". Don't communicate, or do anything outside of ebay during the process.

There is a difference between "as new" and as "new". I don't see the ebay link, so it's unclear as to the exact wording in the listing. If the seller is calling it "new", then he would have to be an authorized Fender dealer and it would come with a factory warranty. Describing it "as new" can mean almost anything.

Be sure to include your pics of the damage to ebay. They'll compare them to the auction pics, and decide. Btw, that damage at the neck pocket isn't going to "buff out".

Unless things have changed recently, Paypal will reimburse your return shipping costs and will even sell you a prepaid shipping label for a few bucks (I think I paid $3 for their label last time I did it). Your refund will include the shipping that you originally paid to the seller (if any). The janky seller eats his shipping costs and hopefully is discouraged from misrepresenting items in the future.

If this was Reverb.com, the seller would have a golden opportunity to shaft you for all the shipping costs, even if a refund is granted. Reverb stresses their Sellers Protection Policy, while ebay stresses their Buyers Protection Policy. The significance of the two approaches should be obvious. I learned this lesson a few months ago with a crooked Reverb seller who lied about the condition of a bass. Seller granted me a return with refund, but he was able to keep the $50 shipping I paid him.

I questioned Reverb about this....they said the seller had disputed the damage and had provided them with a "video" that showed the neck to be in perfect condition. And Reverb said that "in cases like this, the seller is not obligated to reimburse any shipping costs." (wait...really? Seller rips me off then keeps the original shipping fee?)

Then, I contacted Paypal about at least getting my $71 return shipping cost back, which they've always done for me in the past with bad ebay sellers. Paypal said that because it was through a non-affiliated vendor (Reverb) my return shipping was not covered under their return shipping policy. This has to be due to the fact that Paypal IS eBay, and vice versa. Big difference. In the end, I lost $121 in two-way shipping costs over a $400 bass.

Naturally, I left the seller a negative feedback for his chicanery. Remarkably, a couple weeks later I noticed Reverb removed that negative feedback from the seller's feedback history. Evidently, these are the lengths Reverb will go to in shielding their sellers, even the bad ones. This type of behavior is a dog whistle for unscrupulous sellers.

To their credit, Reverb did subsequently allow me a $50 gift certificate to apply to a future purchase there after I complained enough about it. I applied that $50 credit to a pedal that I didn't need, but I wanted to at least get get something back out of the whole debacle.

I'll be hard pressed to buy anything else off Reverb ever again.

(rant over, do carry on)

I think you've just explained why so many sellers have absurdly high shipping costs listed. I'm seeing some folks list $150 shipping costs for a bass being shipped in the CON US.

I'll think twice before spending any more money on Reverb.

 

[scootron]

Just my opinion...

I've had a couple of hundred transactions here, and three or four hundred transactions on ebay, at least 50 of these involving basses and guitars. I've seen a lot of the things that can go right and wrong for buyers and sellers, and I feel for the OP. But I don't think this transaction is as one-sided as the rest of the board seems to believe.

The seller may have selected "New (other)" from the Ebay menu, but there was a history of the instrument which should have put anyone on notice as to potential issues. (And the OP openly admits that condition criteria are subjective.) The facts that should have drawn attention were:

1. The seller had played it for a few weeks;
2. It had sat in a closet for a couple of years (however long that really means); and
3. It didn't have a case, (which means it was not cased as it sat in the closet).

Several have stated here that this bass was in no way "new". How could someone read the above and reasonably wager money that it would be a "new" bass, when it had been played for a "few" weeks then put in a closet for years without a case? Under the circumstances, I thought it looked pretty darn good.

Was it "new" in the mind of the seller? Maybe. He remembers that he bought it, played it a little, put it away, and that was it. If he was trying to scam the buyer, wouldn't he have tried to buff up these scuffs a little bit? Does it really sound as though he noticed them? (Or maybe that is the seller's thing, jamming people up on $400 basses.)

Under the circumstances here, given what the seller said in his listing, the only way I would assume the bass was in excellent+ condition was if there were detailed, up-close, hi-res pictures of the whole bass. Anything else, and I would assume that it picked up some dings over its lifetime. Experience bears this out.

I try to put myself in the OP's place. If I like the bass, but am really bothered by the scuffs, I would ask for a partial refund. (Every bass I own has at least some type of imperfection.) Otherwise there will be a considerable economic waste, namely the extra shipping costs. Someone mentioned a refund of $75, which sounds pretty fair. I'm sure the seller would rather pay that amount than have to pay shipping and sell it again.

So, I think we are being a little harsh on the seller in assuming he was trying to get over on the OP. And I think the OP should have been a little more cautious.

 

[scootron]

May be a little land for putting in my $0.02, I too would say if you can look past it and the bass overall has nothing else wrong with it and the seller can be talked into refunding some money they I'd say that would be a good resolution.

This. (I could probably have skipped my overly-long post which was being typed when this was posted, since it gets to the same place.)

 

[FenderB]

Thanks, I actually did email the seller, and he is hesitantly accepting a return.

The weird thing is, even when he accepted the return, he kept saying that it wasn't like that when he shipped it. And was asking to make sure that they weren't normal Mexican finish flaws. And then he basically said, I expect the bass to come back to me in the same shape that I shipped it out in and that it hasn't been modified, or the damage was caused by use, etc.

So I am now worried that he won't give me a refund when he gets it back, since he insists that he didn't ship it out with stains and damage and he wants it back in the same condition that he says he shipped it out in (i.e. no stains or damage).

So is he able to deny me a refund and say that it didn't have stains and damage when he shipped it out it?

He is not going to be able to deny you a refund, eBay will block his PayPal account. Be sue to report it to ebay, they will open an "return request". All you have to do is tell eBay the bass wasn't in the condition the seller said it was. Make sure all your communication is through eBay email, not your private account and copy everything you send him to your private email. Get on eBay and go to there help section, you can also call them for assistance. Ebay leans much more toward the buyer then the seller. You're also covered under the "Ebay buyer protection plan". Just be sure you everything goes through eBay not your private email. Good luck.

 

[BigBigGuy44]

Here's a little eBay story for fun. I bought a Gibson Money bass off a guy maybe 5-6 years ago. The bass was described as mint condition - he bought it as a collector piece and never played it. The photos evidenced this as well. He had plenty of high res ones listed. He didn't had a lot of feedback but he had sold some guitars and the feedback he did have was good.

Bass comes about a week later (across country via UPS) and right away the packaging doesn't look right. It's in the original money bass box but the box was dingy and beat to hell. I open and and the case was pretty rough too. Bass inside was also in rough condition but most importantly, you could hear and feel the truss rod sliding around inside of the neck.

So I contacted the seller who was pretty adamant it was damaged in shipping. After some going back and forth, he asks me to send him the bass back using USPS and insure it for $300 more than I paid. He would then file a damage claim, make whole on the bass and send me $100 for my troubles.

I contacted PayPal and the USPS about the situation. PayPal agreed to a full refund but asked that I follow any instructions given from USPS. USPS investigators asked to take over all correspondence between the seller and I. In the end, I got a full refund and had to sign an affidavit from the USPS as a witness to mail fraud that would be presented in court.

Never found out what happened to the guy. Did get an email notification from the victims crime unit at one time inviting me to sentencing and it mentioned jail time. His eBay account was also immediately closed.

Back to the bass. After carefully looking at the eBay photos, it became clear the serial number on the bass listed did not match the serial number of the one he shipped.

Everything worked out in this situation but it was one of my more unnerving deals.

 

[bolophonic]

My advice to the OP would be to stop worrying about the technicalities of which box the seller checked on the ebay form and evaluate the bass on its own merits. Speculating about whether the seller is dishonest or just incompetent is not going to get you anywhere. I'd negotiate an appropriate price and rock the bass. You know the guy doesn't want to have to re-list it and ship it all over again.

 

[redramen]

Just my opinion...

I've had a couple of hundred transactions here, and three or four hundred transactions on ebay, at least 50 of these involving basses and guitars. I've seen a lot of the things that can go right and wrong for buyers and sellers, and I feel for the OP. But I don't think this transaction is as one-sided as the rest of the board seems to believe.

The seller may have selected "New (other)" from the Ebay menu, but there was a history of the instrument which should have put anyone on notice as to potential issues. (And the OP openly admits that condition criteria are subjective.) The facts that should have drawn attention were:

1. The seller had played it for a few weeks;
2. It had sat in a closet for a couple of years (however long that really means); and
3. It didn't have a case, (which means it was not cased as it sat in the closet).

Several have stated here that this bass was in no way "new". How could someone read the above and reasonably wager money that it would be a "new" bass, when it had been played for a "few" weeks then put in a closet for years without a case? Under the circumstances, I thought it looked pretty darn good.

Was it "new" in the mind of the seller? Maybe. He remembers that he bought it, played it a little, put it away, and that was it. If he was trying to scam the buyer, wouldn't he have tried to buff up these scuffs a little bit? Does it really sound as though he noticed them? (Or maybe that is the seller's thing, jamming people up on $400 basses.)

Under the circumstances here, given what the seller said in his listing, the only way I would assume the bass was in excellent+ condition was if there were detailed, up-close, hi-res pictures of the whole bass. Anything else, and I would assume that it picked up some dings over its lifetime. Experience bears this out.

I try to put myself in the OP's place. If I like the bass, but am really bothered by the scuffs, I would ask for a partial refund. (Every bass I own has at least some type of imperfection.) Otherwise there will be a considerable economic waste, namely the extra shipping costs. Someone mentioned a refund of $75, which sounds pretty fair. I'm sure the seller would rather pay that amount than have to pay shipping and sell it again.

So, I think we are being a little harsh on the seller in assuming he was trying to get over on the OP. And I think the OP should have been a little more cautious.

I think I should post the ebay ad here to clear up any confusion, but I didn't want to badmouth the guy in case he really honestly didn't notice the staining / damage.

However,
He said in his ad "A few weeks after I bought this, Fender went and released the Seafoam Green Deluxe version, and I bought that one too. The green one is all I have played, and this one has set in its box, unused" Which in my mind was logical. He had a squier bass he was using. Bought this one. Got another bass. And liked the new green one better so the jag bass never got used. He specifically said it was unused. So that is why I really believed that the bass was new other (which according to eBay is new but may be missing packages. Or if is listed as new other, the ad should specifically say what the defects are). The pictures of the bass in the ad looks like it was in new condition, but of course he could have taken that several years ago.

Also, when I emailed him initially that there was staining and damage, the seller said that he looked over the bass very carefully and didn't notice anything right before packing it. Which is weird since when I opened the package, I didn't have to look over it very carefully to see the ding near the neck or the staining. So could he really be that blind?

So while I would like to believe that the seller honestly just made a mistake, his behavior and other evidence seems to point that he is lying. I don't think he is a scammer like some real scammers. Like I don't think he is trying to sell me a squier that he relabeled as a fender. But how can you say that the condition was new and in the text specifically say that it was unused, when clearly there is some use. And how can you say you very carefully looked over the bass before shipping it, when it's obvious you really didn't?

I really don't mind used basses, as long as that is what I know I am getting. Also, the staining really didn't bother me. But fact that he was lying about that makes me wonder what else is he lying about. Also, what happened to that neck to cause that ding there? Was it something small like he dropped his keys or something on it, or was is something more major like he bend the neck while trying to stuff it in his closet.

So while I would like to think the best in people, I didn't feel good about the seller. So I didn't want to keep the bass in case there were other surprises.

 

[redramen]

My advice to the OP would be to stop worrying about the technicalities of which box the seller checked on the ebay form and evaluate the bass on its own merits. Speculating about whether the seller is dishonest or just incompetent is not going to get you anywhere. I'd negotiate an appropriate price and rock the bass. You know the guy doesn't want to have to re-list it and ship it all over again.

Yeah I was thinking of asking for a price break, but that damage near the neck worried me. Was it something more? Also, he threatened to not refund me if the bass was not returned in the condition he sent it out in, and that the staining / damage was not caused by my modification or use. So I could not in good conscience play the bass to see if I would like it enough to keep it. What if it played really crappy? Could I really send it back to him then and say, "no of course the damage wasn't caused by me playing. I didn't play it at all" when I really did play it.

 

[BigBigGuy44]

Hey @redramen, it's your money. Your opinion is the only one that matters. If I thought I was buying a new or like new bass and it came that way, I would be disappointed and would want a refund too.

 

[redramen]

Here's a little eBay story for fun. I bought a Gibson Money bass off a guy maybe 5-6 years ago. The bass was described as mint condition - he bought it as a collector piece and never played it. The photos evidenced this as well. He had plenty of high res ones listed. He didn't had a lot of feedback but he had sold some guitars and the feedback he did have was good.

Bass comes about a week later (across country via UPS) and right away the packaging doesn't look right. It's in the original money bass box but the box was dingy and beat to hell. I open and and the case was pretty rough too. Bass inside was also in rough condition but most importantly, you could hear and feel the truss rod sliding around inside of the neck.

So I contacted the seller who was pretty adamant it was damaged in shipping. After some going back and forth, he asks me to send him the bass back using USPS and insure it for $300 more than I paid. He would then file a damage claim, make whole on the bass and send me $100 for my troubles.

I contacted PayPal and the USPS about the situation. PayPal agreed to a full refund but asked that I follow any instructions given from USPS. USPS investigators asked to take over all correspondence between the seller and I. In the end, I got a full refund and had to sign an affidavit from the USPS as a witness to mail fraud that would be presented in court.

Never found out what happened to the guy. Did get an email notification from the victims crime unit at one time inviting me to sentencing and it mentioned jail time. His eBay account was also immediately closed.

Back to the bass. After carefully looking at the eBay photos, it became clear the serial number on the bass listed did not match the serial number of the one he shipped.

Everything worked out in this situation but it was one of my more unnerving deals.

Holy cow. That story is better than watching NCIS

 

[scuzzy]

eBay withholds funds from sellers for a LONG time. The guy won't really have an option on refunding, if you return through eBay channels. He doesn't even "have" your payment yet, most likely. It is sitting in eBay's grubby hands till the deal is good, then they pay it out. Decent protection for the buyer, incredibly frustrating as a seller.

 

[Handyman]

Holy cow. That story is better than watching NCIS

A prime time drama about the FBI's elite Bass Fraud unit and their exploits?

I'd watch that every week.

 

[petrus61]

I'd consider the issues the cost of buying a bass on eBay and play the damn thing. If it was little stuff like that you were worried about, you should have messaged the seller asking for detailed, hi res shots of the whole bass and all of the usual "trouble" areas. Excellent+? Yeah, ok. You're lucky it even came in one piece. Seriously...if it came down to my only options to own a MIM Jag being buy it off eBay, or never own one for as long as I live, I'd choose the latter. If it plays GOOD, those issues aren't worth the aggravation, IMO.

 

[Member8675309]

I've so many conspiracy theories running through my mind right now.

 

[scootron]

I think I should post the ebay ad here to clear up any confusion, but I didn't want to badmouth the guy in case he really honestly didn't notice the staining / damage.

However,
He said in his ad "A few weeks after I bought this, Fender went and released the Seafoam Green Deluxe version, and I bought that one too. The green one is all I have played, and this one has set in its box, unused" Which in my mind was logical. He had a squier bass he was using. Bought this one. Got another bass. And liked the new green one better so the jag bass never got used. He specifically said it was unused. So that is why I really believed that the bass was new other (which according to eBay is new but may be missing packages. Or if is listed as new other, the ad should specifically say what the defects are). The pictures of the bass in the ad looks like it was in new condition, but of course he could have taken that several years ago.

Also, when I emailed him initially that there was staining and damage, the seller said that he looked over the bass very carefully and didn't notice anything right before packing it. Which is weird since when I opened the package, I didn't have to look over it very carefully to see the ding near the neck or the staining. So could he really be that blind?

So while I would like to believe that the seller honestly just made a mistake, his behavior and other evidence seems to point that he is lying. I don't think he is a scammer like some real scammers. Like I don't think he is trying to sell me a squier that he relabeled as a fender. But how can you say that the condition was new and in the text specifically say that it was unused, when clearly there is some use. And how can you say you very carefully looked over the bass before shipping it, when it's obvious you really didn't?

I really don't mind used basses, as long as that is what I know I am getting. Also, the staining really didn't bother me. But fact that he was lying about that makes me wonder what else is he lying about. Also, what happened to that neck to cause that ding there? Was it something small like he dropped his keys or something on it, or was is something more major like he bend the neck while trying to stuff it in his closet.

So while I would like to think the best in people, I didn't feel good about the seller. So I didn't want to keep the bass in case there were other surprises.

Okay, you are not trying now.

He bought the bass. A few weeks later, he bought the green bass. Since then, he says, the green bass was all he played. The first bass sat unused. Get that? He didn't say he never used the first bass. He said he didn't use the first bass after buying the second one. It remained "unused" from that point in time. This is reading comprehension.

In any event, you are minimizing the fact that you knew it had been stored in a closet for at least two years without a case.

I noticed that you mentioned more than once that you paid considerably more for this bass than you did your other one. Was there any buyer's remorse here because of that?

You do not seem willing to accept any responsibility for this situation, and anxious to brand the seller as a "liar". You're going to do whatever you are going to do, but don't pretend you are standing alone on the moral high ground.

 

[Member8675309]

"This one has only (Implying it's basically a virgin) had a set-up done and spent its life in the closet for a couple of years. The wood on the fretboard has great color to it, and looks great against the black and white of the guitar. Everything works as it should, and there is no damage or wear (There you go, it arrived damaged, immediate case for a misrepresentation of the product. Let the buyer know the issues, as it is merely a simple gesture of ethics). There are some handling swirls on thepickguard, but the great thing about that is, I never took the protectiveplastic film off the pickguard(This is a statement meant to lead the buyer into believing that if this non-issue cosmetic flaw is all that is being presented, than this bass must be in fantastic condition. It's classic redirectional, baseline psychology), so it is pristine too (Implying bass is pristine)."

In good faith, how can anyone blame the OP? What was perceived, and what was actually represented, do not align whatsoever. I'd assume the bass was "pristine" as well. It is possible it was damaged in shipping, but I doubt it.

Has the OP stated whether the EBay photos showed this damage, if only barely noticeable? But, even if there were images, the sellers statements do not reflect the truth/images, and, therefore, conflict with the listings merits. I would also agree that to ask for a reduced price wouldn't be a terrible way to go if the seller will allow it, otherwise...just return it and let us know how this drama pans out. You are totally justified here based on the evidence we've seen. If there is something else you're not telling us, well then that is unethical in itself. For the guy above me.....Reading comprehension? Assumptions versus statements presented as fact....I'll go with statements presented as facts any day of the week due to good faith. That is reading comprehension. Freakin' ridiculous.