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Ebay woes

Also, he threatened to not refund me if the bass was not returned in the condition he sent it out in, and that the staining / damage was not caused by my modification or use.
As someone who has been selling and buying on Ebay for over 20 years, this statement from the seller would make me worry. If he states it was pristine when sent, but receives it with stains and ding, he has grounds to dispute the claim. Even if you win, he may be able to drag it out for awhile. I am very surprised you are not having to pay for the return shipping, but you may in the end. They may deduct it from your refund. I always prefer to work out a partial refund because at least I still have the item. Once it is shipped, you have nothing. Everything is in Ebay or PayPal's discretion once it is shipped. I do hope it works out for you. Good luck!
 
Wow. That sucks. I've sold a couple of things on reverb since their fees were cheaper, but that story scares me buying from reverb ever again. I guess if I have to buy a bass online, it will be on here. I hope the sellers are more honest here.
Sadly, not everyone is honest. I bought a bass from someone on here and it had major issues that cost me hundreds to have repaired.
 
Okay, you are not trying now.

He bought the bass. A few weeks later, he bought the green bass. Since then, he says, the green bass was all he played. The first bass sat unused. Get that? He didn't say he never used the first bass. He said he didn't use the first bass after buying the second one. It remained "unused" from that point in time. This is reading comprehension.

In any event, you are minimizing the fact that you knew it had been stored in a closet for at least two years without a case.

I noticed that you mentioned more than once that you paid considerably more for this bass than you did your other one. Was there any buyer's remorse here because of that?

You do not seem willing to accept any responsibility for this situation, and anxious to brand the seller as a "liar". You're going to do whatever you are going to do, but don't pretend you are standing alone on the moral high ground.

Fair enough. You are right, when looking at ads in eBay (I am not being sarcastic here), I should have read more into the text of the ad. I should have been using the skills I learned in English class and really tried to understand what the author of the text was really trying to express or what he really actually meant. I should have been a verbal Sherlock Holmes. Like when the seller listed the condition as new, what he really meant was that it would be new to me. And when he said the bass was unused, I should have assumed he meant unused after he used it for a few weeks. I should have also understood that when he said that there was no damage or wear, that he meant no damage or wear except for the damage and wear caused by it being stored without a case, like all mexican fender in the warehouse before it gets shipped out. Also, I should have assumed that the pictures in the ad that didnt show the damage or staining were pictures of the bass when it was first bought, not when he was selling it.

I accept responsibility for assuming that the seller was trying his best to describe the item as well as he could. I guess I shouldn't have taken the guy's words or pictures at face value. So I do take responsibility for that. This did teach me a lesson that I should be more wary of when people sell stuff they call "new". I don't buy instruments on eBay often, but when I have and it was listed as new, it was new. So I was basing my experience on that. So this was the first time I got something that wasn't new when it was listed as new. I don't sell very often, but whenever I sold anything on ebay, I try to take close up pictures of anything that would be different from a completely new product. I take pictures of the smallest things even if you can only see them in a certain light or if you need a magnifying glass to see them. Even if it was like that when it came from the factory. Even if it was caused by the normal typical finishing issues in Mexican fenders. Or at least try to describe it. I have had lots of people tell me that they couldn't even see the imperfections when they got the product. I just assumed people did that, since eBay specifically tells you to do this in their seller guide.

I don't think I have the moral high ground above everyone, but maybe I do with this seller. I would not have sold this bass the way he did. I would have made sure that the buyer knew that before I bought the green one, I played this one. I would not have mentioned the Squier bass or the green bass to allow people to assume that I only used those two basses and not this one. I would not have used the word "unused". I would have taken close up pictures of the stains and ding near the neck. I would have presented the bass as it was and let the buyer decide if they can live with the staining or damage. I would not have used words or phrases that can be read different ways. I would definitely not have listed it as new (other).

It was not buyers remorse. $429 + shipping was a good price for a NEW jag bass, which is what I thought I was buying. $429 is not a good price for a USED jag bass, since I know that I can get them for less than that (at least around here). If I knew that I was getting a USED bass, the staining or damage would not have bothered me. But it was listed as NEW (other). And the condition of the item is not subjective. Ebay has specific definitions for the conditions of items. Again this was in the sellers guide, so I assumed the seller followed eBay's definitions.

Ebay lists new (other) as "A new, unused item with absolutely no signs of wear. The item may be missing the original packaging, or in the original packaging but not sealed. The item may be a factory second or a new, unused item with defects. See the seller's listing for full details and description of any imperfections." [emphasis mine]

So maybe my reading comprehension really isn't up to par, but I assume that when eBay says "unused", they don't mean that you used the item but then it was unused after you got another item to replace it with. Also, I assumed that "any imperfections" included the staining or ding near the neck and the seller would have needed to mention them. But I could be wrong. Maybe eBay's definitions are more subjective than I thought.
 
Sadly, not everyone is honest. I bought a bass from someone on here and it had major issues that cost me hundreds to have repaired.
"Here" being eBay? Or "here" being TB?

This is a good example of how things get misunderstood between people.
When we say can I see it. And you are not shown the item you called "it," then there is confusion.
When we say, can I see [description of item] it is more likely we will see what we hope to see.
Since we are discussing eBay purchases, but doing it on TB, it is not clear as to what "here" means.

When I have eBay questions for sellers I ask very specific questions like "Are there any issues that affect the look/finish?" "Please define pristine."
Are there any issues with how it functions?" "Does everything work properly?" If the answer is anything but "No" them more questions are in order.
 
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"This one has only (Implying it's basically a virgin) had a set-up done and spent its life in the closet for a couple of years. The wood on the fretboard has great color to it, and looks great against the black and white of the guitar. Everything works as it should, and there is no damage or wear (There you go, it arrived damaged, immediate case for a misrepresentation of the product. Let the buyer know the issues, as it is merely a simple gesture of ethics). There are some handling swirls on thepickguard, but the great thing about that is, I never took the protectiveplastic film off the pickguard(This is a statement meant to lead the buyer into believing that if this non-issue cosmetic flaw is all that is being presented, than this bass must be in fantastic condition. It's classic redirectional, baseline psychology), so it is pristine too (Implying bass is pristine)."

In good faith, how can anyone blame the OP? What was perceived, and what was actually represented, do not align whatsoever. I'd assume the bass was "pristine" as well. It is possible it was damaged in shipping, but I doubt it.

Has the OP stated whether the EBay photos showed this damage, if only barely noticeable? But, even if there were images, the sellers statements do not reflect the truth/images, and, therefore, conflict with the listings merits. I would also agree that to ask for a reduced price wouldn't be a terrible way to go if the seller will allow it, otherwise...just return it and let us know how this drama pans out. You are totally justified here based on the evidence we've seen. If there is something else you're not telling us, well then that is unethical in itself. For the guy above me.....Reading comprehension? Assumptions versus statements presented as fact....I'll go with statements presented as facts any day of the week due to good faith. That is reading comprehension. Freakin' ridiculous.

Thanks for quoting the ad. That is exactly how I read it as well.

The photos did not show the staining or damage. They were not closeups of the spots (like the pictures I uploaded), but they seemed fairly high resolution.

I may have taken a partial refund, but like I said, the seller didn't seem to want to disclose or at least be aware of all the issues. So I dont know if there was something else that was not disclosed that I wouldn't know about until I decide to keep it, like is the truss rod stuck or something.

I'll update this thread with what happens after it has been sent back and the resolution. Hopefully he won't be a jerk about the refund.
 
Also, just because people seem to be interested, here are the pictures on the ad of the affected areas:

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"Here" being eBay? Or "here" being TB?

This is a good example of how things get misunderstood between people.
When we say can I see it. And you are not shown the item you called "it," then there is confusion.
When we say, can I see [description of item] it is more likely we will see what we hope to see.
Since we are discussing eBay purchases, but doing it on TB, it is not clear as to what "here" means.

When I have eBay questions for sellers I ask very specific questions like "Are there any issues that affect the look/finish?" "Please define pristine."
Are there any issues with how it functions?" "Does everything work properly?" If the answer is anything but "No" them more questions are in order.

Likewise, this strategy is great for weeding out sellers who are out to make money via the path of least resistance. I've asked questions like that on ebay (and once or twice on TB), where the seller seemed annoyed and short in their responses - like I was wasting their time. If it seems like someone is burdened by giving you more information on an item you are spending hundreds or thousands of dollars on, move along.
 
"Here" being eBay? Or "here" being TB?

This is a good example of how things get misunderstood between people.
When we say can I see it. And you are not shown the item you called "it," then there is confusion.
When we say, can I see [description of item] it is more likely we will see what we hope to see.
Since we are discussing eBay purchases, but doing it on TB, it is not clear as to what "here" means.

When I have eBay questions for sellers I ask very specific questions like "Are there any issues that affect the look/finish?" "Please define pristine."
Are there any issues with how it functions?" "Does everything work properly?" If the answer is anything but "No" them more questions are in order.

Yeah. I usually ask really detailed questions like that as well, but I didn't this time because it was listed as new. And I didn't want to annoy the seller since the word "new", at least to me and eBay's definition, was pretty black and white.

So, I imagined the conversation would have gone like this:

Me: Hi, what is the condition of the item?

Seller: It's listed as new.

Me: Is there any damage or wear on it?

Seller: No. It's listed as new.

Me: So was it ever used?

Seller: No. Can't you read? It's listed as new.

Me: So there is no fretwear or staining on it?

Seller: Like I said, it's listed as new.

Me: Is the finish perfect?

Seller: Hey buddy, not sure how else to tell you this. But this is listed as new.

Me: Are there any dings or cracks?

Seller: Jeez. It's listed as new.

Me: Are there any other imperfections or dings?

Seller: For the last time, It's listed as new.

Me: Ohhhhhh ok. I think I get it. So what you are saying is that the bass is new.

Seller (in soup nazi voice): No bass for you!
 
Also, just because people seem to be interested, here are the pictures on the ad of the affected areas:

View attachment 2764797
View attachment 2764798
View attachment 2764799
View attachment 2764800
Yeah, it looks good there. Could be old pics, but looks like a nice bass.

I buy online a lot, but I also buy from my local music store. I've had questions before so I'll go in, buy something, then ask if they'd mind evaluating the bass. A lot of small business owners genuinely want to help (within reason...they aren't going to give you a free setup) because they know they're gaining your loyalty. If the tech says it looks good, then it probably is. But, do buy some pics, strings, or new knobs or something while you're there. These basses are tougher than they look.

I tried pulling a Jaco once, removed my own frets. Screwed it up big time. Neck was ruined. Out of curiosity, I wondered how hard it would be to break a neck. Now, I'm 6'2" and 225 pounds and I played baseball for ten years. Those necks are tougher than you think. That rod, if it's broken, you'll know. Neck will be bent a fair bit, and you can sometime hear it rattling in there. Try turning it as well, not too an extreme, see if it adjusts. It'd be the only thing I'd be worried about, besides getting a slight refund.
 
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Also, just because people seem to be interested, here are the pictures on the ad of the affected areas:

View attachment 2764797
View attachment 2764798
View attachment 2764799
View attachment 2764800
This is the gray area. If the seller shows his pictures to Ebay and then shows your pictures saying you did that to it, they may find in his favor. I've had a similar experience as you with an item that showed up destroyed by UPS. I gave it back to them filing a shipping damage claim. They refused the claim due to insufficient packaging (was new in factory box) and returned it to the seller. I had no Item and no $$$. It took almost a month of fighting with the seller to get it resolved. I really hope things work out for you.
 
Even as a BUYER on Reverb, I've had a problem.

Right, buyers are the ones taking the risks on Reverb, not sellers. Sellers on Reverb run very little risk, because unlike on eBay, when sellers misrepresent their items (read; lie outright) there are no serious consequences for them when things go sideways. That's how Reverb wants it.

After enough "unhappy endings" accumulate and a tipping point is reached, they'll have to make a choice: Protect their buyers, or languish. Who knows?.....Reverb may have a road to Damascus moment some day and institute a more equitable arrangement like eBay did a few years ago. My instincts are telling me that instead, they'll likely just dry up and blow away one day, for lack of sales.
 
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