Double Bass EBS Stanley Clarke Acoustic Preamp

[Eric Hochberg]

Is there some functional reason the length of the amp doesn't work for you? I'd be inclined to just let it
hang out in front/back if I really liked the sound. Or, I'd set my controls and turn it sideways...

 

[Eric Hochberg]

@kerrycares You know I meant for my comment above to be in your Phil Jones thread. I don't know how
it ended up here!

 

[kerrycares]

@kerrycares You know I meant for my comment above to be in your Phil Jones thread. I don't know how
it ended up here!

Both threads are overlapping at this point and thanks for the heads up!

 

[vedi]

Dear all,

My EBS SC AP was delivered yesterday, got to use it at today’s lengthy soundcheck for tomorrow’s performance (streamed, no public allowed).

Short story: improvement over whatever I’ve owned or tried before. Still itching to try Felix.

Long story:
• Pro
o Separate (almost full) eq for each channel
o Continuous HPF (as opposed to switched presets)
o Pre and post eq peak LED
o Illumination
o Silent switching
o Good use of inputs and outputs (since it is made on the platform of MicroBass 3, they obviously reused the frame to save money)
o It actually is useful for the slab as well, it will really come in handy for doubling gigs
o Headphone output, aux input
o Speaker sim – not IR, just filter
o Fx loop
o It has a safety system built in against lesser power adapters: you connect anything that is not strong enough, it will blink all the lights and refuse to cooperate
o Power adapter with all possible plugs is in the package

• Con
o You have to choose between notch and HPF per channel, cannot have both.
 Summing channels A and B actually gives you double eq if you only use input A, but you also have to use gain B then and it just feels weird.
o I cannot grab the device without pressing one of the buttons on the sides. Personally, I’d put them all on top, or ingressed...
o Illumination does switch between channels, but only lights channel B when summing A and B – no other visual than that.
o No pre eq on DI out (still on the fence whether I’d exchange speaker sim for that)
o Fx loop cannot be assigned to a channel or switched at the pedal
o Similarly, channels cannot be assigned to DI out – and there is only one.
o Only way to balance the two channels is by adjusting their gain, there is no mix knob

The output is instrument level and even with maxed volume cannot drive fx return on the bass amp. It is however more than sufficient to cleanly drive instrument input. DI level is only controlled by whatever you set the gain and eq to, it is not influenced by master volume.

Ease of use was really great in my case, but then I am very familiar with the EBS range. Compared to EDB-2 it replaced, I felt that I got the usable sound much easier, HPF and the rest of the eq section is just more effective for my needs. My pickup is MSP, and I use an active Yamaha DBR10 speaker. The base sound was already ok, I used HPF to cut what my speaker cannot reproduce anyway, used semi-parametric mids to dial out the honk, and viola... did not need to add the second channel’s eq to the equation this time. Almost 4 hours later, the adapter was warm and the pedal itself was not cold, if you catch my drift.

Will it stay? Hmmmmmm... well. A couple of “con” points are nitpicking tbh, and I could do without or find a workaround. On one hand it pains me that Felix became rather scarce round here since February when I decided to get one, and I could never try one. On the other hand, have I bought it, it would have gloriously gathered dust, and I hate buying anything that doesn’t earn its stay. Now, the EBS is much cheaper in comparison, and while some connection goodies compared to Felix are missing, I guess I will cope until I can get my hands on Felix. At the same time it is a much better match for me personally than EDB-2. I can also use it as a nifty little mixer for teaching purposes (two slabs and aux in) or silent practice.

Previous experience: owned EBS MicroBass 2 (sold almost immediately, not enough headroom, too compressed), Headway EDB-2 (eq choices limited to one or both channels, preset bands never really fit although I did many gigs with it, even doubling: very convenient when strapped to player’s body), still have fdeck 2 (how many times did it save me when the fridge appeared as backline). Extensively tested some AI stuff, as well as most Fishman preamps. Probably some other things as well, but their names escape me atm.

 

[sevdog]

I've spent way to much interwebs time reading about and shopping for this to just realize...output is only instrument level. No line level output? Man, that seems like a miss. And is honestly a deal killer for me. It looks almost perfect for me. But alas, it is ALMOST perfect.

Anyone have a rec for a similar device that can drive a power amp?

 

[N. Kentucky Bass]

I've spent way to much interwebs time reading about and shopping for this to just realize...output is only instrument level. No line level output? Man, that seems like a miss. And is honestly a deal killer for me. It looks almost perfect for me. But alas, it is ALMOST perfect.

Anyone have a rec for a similar device that can drive a power amp?

That's a lot to ask for in one small device! I use the similar Headway EDB-2 H.E and it provides input signal gain up to 32dB on both channels -- not enough to drive a power amp. Another reason why the last step in my chain is the Noble tube preamp. For live sound, the Noble line output signal goes into a powered speaker or effects return jack. The Noble DI is available for other requirements.

 

[sevdog]

That's a lot to ask for in one small device! I use the similar Headway EDB-2 H.E and it provides input signal gain up to 32dB on both channels -- not enough to drive a power amp. Another reason why the last step in my chain is the Noble tube preamp. For live sound, the Noble line output signal goes into a powered speaker or effects return jack. The Noble DI is available for other requirements.

View attachment 4091540

Well, I mean there are quite a few pedal pre's available that can/do drive power amps or have enough to use the effects return and bypass and bass head's pre. So, I'm not really sure why they would skip that.

There are also a lot of different set ups where you could piece together components to achieve running a di and a mic line and blend 2 channels...of course that is much more expensive than $499.

So, this pedal with a line level would appear to be a perfect all-in-one solution for me for both recording and live situations with my electric and my double bass.

However, without a line level you're back to adding components and more $$$ in order to get there. So, it's not nearly as interesting to me since I can already achieve all of these thing, just with separate items. YMMV

 

[gadgetgirl]

EBS posted this video recently which provides a helpful overview of the new preamp pedal:

 

[sevdog]

Ok wait a second. Are you sure this can't drive a power amp? From EBS's website:

Dear all,

My EBS SC AP was delivered yesterday, got to use it at today’s lengthy soundcheck for tomorrow’s performance (streamed, no public allowed).

Short story: improvement over whatever I’ve owned or tried before. Still itching to try Felix.

Long story:
• Pro
o Separate (almost full) eq for each channel
o Continuous HPF (as opposed to switched presets)
o Pre and post eq peak LED
o Illumination
o Silent switching
o Good use of inputs and outputs (since it is made on the platform of MicroBass 3, they obviously reused the frame to save money)
o It actually is useful for the slab as well, it will really come in handy for doubling gigs
o Headphone output, aux input
o Speaker sim – not IR, just filter
o Fx loop
o It has a safety system built in against lesser power adapters: you connect anything that is not strong enough, it will blink all the lights and refuse to cooperate
o Power adapter with all possible plugs is in the package

• Con
o You have to choose between notch and HPF per channel, cannot have both.
 Summing channels A and B actually gives you double eq if you only use input A, but you also have to use gain B then and it just feels weird.
o I cannot grab the device without pressing one of the buttons on the sides. Personally, I’d put them all on top, or ingressed...
o Illumination does switch between channels, but only lights channel B when summing A and B – no other visual than that.
o No pre eq on DI out (still on the fence whether I’d exchange speaker sim for that)
o Fx loop cannot be assigned to a channel or switched at the pedal
o Similarly, channels cannot be assigned to DI out – and there is only one.
o Only way to balance the two channels is by adjusting their gain, there is no mix knob

The output is instrument level and even with maxed volume cannot drive fx return on the bass amp. It is however more than sufficient to cleanly drive instrument input. DI level is only controlled by whatever you set the gain and eq to, it is not influenced by master volume.

Ease of use was really great in my case, but then I am very familiar with the EBS range. Compared to EDB-2 it replaced, I felt that I got the usable sound much easier, HPF and the rest of the eq section is just more effective for my needs. My pickup is MSP, and I use an active Yamaha DBR10 speaker. The base sound was already ok, I used HPF to cut what my speaker cannot reproduce anyway, used semi-parametric mids to dial out the honk, and viola... did not need to add the second channel’s eq to the equation this time. Almost 4 hours later, the adapter was warm and the pedal itself was not cold, if you catch my drift.

Will it stay? Hmmmmmm... well. A couple of “con” points are nitpicking tbh, and I could do without or find a workaround. On one hand it pains me that Felix became rather scarce round here since February when I decided to get one, and I could never try one. On the other hand, have I bought it, it would have gloriously gathered dust, and I hate buying anything that doesn’t earn its stay. Now, the EBS is much cheaper in comparison, and while some connection goodies compared to Felix are missing, I guess I will cope until I can get my hands on Felix. At the same time it is a much better match for me personally than EDB-2. I can also use it as a nifty little mixer for teaching purposes (two slabs and aux in) or silent practice.

Previous experience: owned EBS MicroBass 2 (sold almost immediately, not enough headroom, too compressed), Headway EDB-2 (eq choices limited to one or both channels, preset bands never really fit although I did many gigs with it, even doubling: very convenient when strapped to player’s body), still have fdeck 2 (how many times did it save me when the fridge appeared as backline). Extensively tested some AI stuff, as well as most Fishman preamps. Probably some other things as well, but their names escape me atm.

 

[gadgetgirl]

Ok wait a second. Are you sure this can't drive a power amp? From EBS's website

View attachment 4091699

From the manual:
https://ebssweden.com/content2/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/SCPRE_manualA6.pdf

 

[sevdog]

From the manual:
https://ebssweden.com/content2/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/SCPRE_manualA6.pdf

Thank you, I had not found a link to the manual. Perfect.

 

[vedi]

Ok wait a second. Are you sure this can't drive a power amp? From EBS's website:
View attachment 4091699

I don't remember writing anything about driving a power amp if you mean rack units - I did write about fx return of a bass amp (EBS Reidmar 750) being fed by the OUTPUT of the pedal, not DI. once I've set the Gain control just under clipping, I then started bringing up the Volume control - even maxed, it did not sound nearly as loud as it usually sounds when going into head's input. I then reconnected the pedal to the Input of the head, and there the signal level was more than adequate, quite satisfactory indeed.

I did use this pedal's DI out into the powered speaker (Yamaha DRB 10), and the result is pretty much the same as Headway EDB-2 volumewise, i.e. the level knob on the back of the speaker ended up in the same range for my needs in terms of perceived loudness. I never meant to imply that OUTPUT and DI levels are the same.

 

[gadgetgirl]

I wrote to [email protected] with my questions and Ralf responded quickly. I think they are behind on posting more info about the product.

 

[lurk]

I don't remember writing anything about driving a power amp if you mean rack units - I did write about fx return of a bass amp (EBS Reidmar 750) being fed by the OUTPUT of the pedal, not DI. once I've set the Gain control just under clipping, I then started bringing up the Volume control - even maxed, it did not sound nearly as loud as it usually sounds when going into head's input. I then reconnected the pedal to the Input of the head, and there the signal level was more than adequate, quite satisfactory indeed.

I did use this pedal's DI out into the powered speaker (Yamaha DRB 10), and the result is pretty much the same as Headway EDB-2 volumewise, i.e. the level knob on the back of the speaker ended up in the same range for my needs in terms of perceived loudness. I never meant to imply that OUTPUT and DI levels are the same.

OT, but I see you use the msp. I have one and was unsuccessful with it. Where do you place it? Does it stay there when you pack up the bass and haul it around? Any suggestions?

 

[DoubleMIDI]

If you want the MSP staying in place during transport you need to use the double-sided sticky pad to fix the inner magnet at the top. And best keep the MSP at the outer side of the top against it to avoid the inner magnet fall if the sticky pad fails.

I understand if you don’t want to do that since then you fix the position and removing the tape might not be easy.
But that’s what the MSP is.
If you don’t like it, get a Ehrlund EAP, an AKG C411 with a B29 or an Ischell.

 

[vedi]

OT, but I see you use the msp. I have one and was unsuccessful with it. Where do you place it? Does it stay there when you pack up the bass and haul it around? Any suggestions?

If you want the MSP staying in place during transport you need to use the double-sided sticky pad to fix the inner magnet at the top. And best keep the MSP at the outer side of the top against it to avoid the inner magnet fall if the sticky pad fails.

I understand if you don’t want to do that since then you fix the position and removing the tape might not be easy.
But that’s what the MSP is.
If you don’t like it, get a Ehrlund EAP, an AKG C411 with a B29 or an Ischell.

OT, sorry.

@lurk : I place it more or less under the E foot of the bridge. I have found that closer to the foot causes almost zero feedback problems, while going lower might give you problems in live situation with your signal being amplified. however, IME, the lower you go, the woodier it sounds, so when recording I will test a few positions to find what sounds the best.

at this point I might add that you should really try all the combinations of magnets that came with MSP. I started with one middle size, and thinking it would be better I actually put two together on one side, and a thin one piggy-back on the "stethoscope". this created a really strong pull between the sides, but resulted in a really unnatural sound, void of any dynamics. I now use the thin magnet inside the body and the "stethoscope" on the outside.

@DoubleMIDI : my experience is quite the opposite of yours, sorry to say. once the pickup is coupled with a magnet, it pretty much stays in position IME. naturally, if the cable is pulled with sufficient force, it will move, but most of the time the inner magnet will follow. In years of owning it the inner magnet fell off exactly once. the setup can be really quick with the wire provided, and once the magnets lock in the ballpark position, you can slowly fine tune. I only install MSP when needed, and then it usually stays on until it is not required anymore. I attach the wire over the afterlengths with a small velcro tie (smallest Thomann's), the rest is then led away by gravity I have found it is best the wire does not touch the body, the vibrations do transfer. when packed, I roll the cable and jack up until the velcro tie, and put it into the bow quiver - this way the metal housing of the jack will not bang against the body while transported, and at the same time will not create any pulling force to move the magnets.

 

[Matthijs]

I’m interested in the comparison of the EBS with the Tech 21 Q strip, mainly in sound quality and overall voicing. The obvious differences in switching and channels I can probably figure out myself.

the reason is I’m looking into replacing my headway edb2. The main problems I have with the headway is I want more flexibility in EQ and the eq points of the headway often don’t do it for me. And I’d like a gizmo that’s also a bit more slab friendly.

 

[vedi]

I’m interested in the comparison of the EBS with the Tech 21 Q strip, mainly in sound quality and overall voicing. The obvious differences in switching and channels I can probably figure out myself.

the reason is I’m looking into replacing my headway edb2. The main problems I have with the headway is I want more flexibility in EQ and the eq points of the headway often don’t do it for me. And I’d like a gizmo that’s also a bit more slab friendly.

I haven't tried the Q strip, so cannot compare.

I've been using EDB-2 a lot last 5-6 years. I loved the notch filter there, very flexible. however, only applicable to one channel. the HPF was in my experience either off, too little or too much. I have to say, preamp sounded good enough to be used with a passive slab on second channel, while the first one was populated by the doghouse and used all the EQ available. however, the set EQ points cannot be a solution for every situation, and sometimes I would be solving hollow stages and loud drummers with EQ, leaving the sound eaten up, you know? I have to cut a lot with lo and hi mids because the problem was somewhere between those, and they would carve out too much of the body. also, you'd have to listen really close for clipping, since there is no visual.

one thing I noticed: when I needed more volume with my active speaker, on the back of it I would switch the speaker's input sensitivity from line level to mic level. while using EDB-2 this would introduce some hiss. with SC AP, there is no hiss.

it sounds really clean with the slab, cleaner than EBS heads. but not sterile to the point that it made it not fun to play. great sensitivity and dynamics, passive slab feels good, you don't have to fight for the sound. if you need some drive, you have fx loop. I'd say give it a go.

 

[Tom Bomb]

​

 

[Zbysek]

The output is instrument level and even with maxed volume cannot drive fx return on the bass amp.

I've spent way to much interwebs time reading about and shopping for this to just realize...output is only instrument level. No line level output? Man, that seems like a miss. And is honestly a deal killer for me. It looks almost perfect for me. But alas, it is ALMOST perfect.

So, this pedal with a line level would appear to be a perfect all-in-one solution for me for both recording and live situations with my electric and my double bass.

However, without a line level you're back to adding components and more $$$ in order to get there. So, it's not nearly as interesting to me since I can already achieve all of these thing, just with separate items. YMMV

According to the manual, the (unbalanced) output's signal level is 0 dBv.....which is "average line level"

Line level, instrument level, mic level explained.