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Eddie Kramer on pedals.

#41
I don't know Eddie Kramer,but my take is;
"Are guitar players, or musicians in general, over processing their sound?
I don't think so-it's a matter of expanding ones tonal palette.
"Is over processing compensating for something else?
Can't answer this on the whole.
As is the case with the previous question it's a thing best looked at on a case to case basis.
 
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#43
Mosfed said:
Oh and for the record - I have nothing but love for Eddie Kramer. But he's not the dude I would be speaking to to produce anything other than a classic rock record.
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This should be a disclaimer in the article.
 
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#44
Tbh... It takes talent to play with a pedal and sound good. You all have heard players who for the sake of it can't get a proper good tone.

I heard bassist without any pedal who can't be heard through the band mix.

I heard guitarist who doesn't use effect whose playing ability is limited to pentatonic and then start bashing people with effects just because they can't use it well.
 
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#47
Good advice. I only have a tuner, overdrive, chorus and a delay and, rarely use them....then again, I doubt very much I'll ever be in a situation where I'm on the other side of the glass with Eddie Kramer.
 
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#48
254 stringer said:
My opinion is if I'm paying for the studio, legendary or not, the engineers job is to press record.
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This speaks volumes to indicating your level of professionalism.

The engineer's job is to run the technical aspect of getting good tone for the band and the producer. The producer is there to make the band sound as good as possible and act as a source for sanity check. If neither were needed because musicians have all the answers when it comes to recording then there wouldn't be guys out there that command HUGE salaries for making bands sound great in the studio.
 
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#49
BaltBass5 said:
This speaks volumes to indicating your level of professionalism.

The engineer's job is to run the technical aspect of getting good tone for the band and the producer. The producer is there to make the band sound as good as possible and act as a source for sanity check. If neither were needed because musicians have all the answers when it comes to recording then there wouldn't be guys out there that command HUGE salaries for making bands sound great in the studio.
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Most of my contribution to music has been as a recording engineer and I very much agree with this. These days, if I am hiring an engineer, I seek people with totally different skills and styles to my own so that new ideas come to the table. And in my opinion, the producer role is the single most important to any record. In hip hop, I literally follow producers more than artists.

Anyone that says that engineers and producers aren't important to records just doesn't know how making a record works.

That doesn't mean that I give a hoot about Eddie Kramer's opinion on pedals. Unless I hire him of course.
 
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#50
Funny, Kramer admits that 1) his opinion is prejudiced and 2) you can't make broad accusations because of the people out there that use effects "so bloody well". Seems fair. I guess I'm missing the legendary and controversial thing we're supposed to be taking away from this.

I actually love the idea of stripping things down to see what's there, but sometimes that can be moot:

 
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#51
It's all about taste. Everything else is a piece of gear or a noise. Knowing when and how to employ this or that and when to include this or that—that's where 'sounds' are made. 'Over-processed' can still result in good music. Ya just gotta fully understand its function in the music.
 
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#52
BaltBass5 said:
This speaks volumes to indicating your level of professionalism.

The engineer's job is to run the technical aspect of getting good tone for the band and the producer. The producer is there to make the band sound as good as possible and act as a source for sanity check. If neither were needed because musicians have all the answers when it comes to recording then there wouldn't be guys out there that command HUGE salaries for making bands sound great in the studio.
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How would you know anything about my level of professionalism? I tend to like music that is not overproduced and the artist gets the final say. From experience when my first band went to the studio we didn't know anything and had free reign over everything. We recorded a piece of crap. We also learned a lot. I think more artisist would benefit from learning experiences like this.
 
#53
254 stringer said:
How would you know anything about my level of professionalism? I tend to like music that is not overproduced and the artist gets the final say. From experience when my first band went to the studio we didn't know anything and had free reign over everything. We recorded a piece of crap. We also learned a lot. I think more artisist would benefit from learning experiences like this.
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He specifically said that what you wrote told him something about your professionalism.

For my part, while I agree that we should all learn valuable lessons by doing things the wrong way, that is not exactly a good argument for how professionals can and should do things well.

IOW on that session you guys learned some things about production, and how to make better production choices next time, and that's great. A good producer is somebody who has already learned those lessons, and can save the band from putting out a poor sounding record.
 
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#54
bongomania said:
A good producer is somebody who has already learned those lessons, and can save the band from putting out a poor sounding record.
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Sometimes but St. Anger proves that wrong.
FWIW I did say in my original post if I am paying for the studio then I want it my way. If I am being paid to be there or part of a band that wants to work with a producer then I will shut up. I do think a good producer should try to get the best performance out of an artist and not interfere to the point of rewriting the song. But when I pay for studio time I am only making music for myself. I don't care if anyone else likes it as long as I am happy with the finished product.
 
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#56
My response when my father, a worship director I happen to play electric guitar and bass for, asked why I always bring the pedals even if I only need the volume pedal and my overdrive.

Dad the pedals themselves have no sound. The guitar itself has no sound. Neither does the amp. I give them my sound, that coming out of the speaker is my voice, and the pedals give me new ways to speak.

People like me who make less than 10 grand a year on music or people like mr. Kramer or Jimi or hipster Joe with 3 pedaltrains onstage, all our opinions are valid because the only people who matter are ourselves. Do what you want
 
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#57
254 stringer said:
Sometimes but St. Anger proves that wrong.
FWIW I did say in my original post if I am paying for the studio then I want it my way. If I am being paid to be there or part of a band that wants to work with a producer then I will shut up. I do think a good producer should try to get the best performance out of an artist and not interfere to the point of rewriting the song. But when I pay for studio time I am only making music for myself. I don't care if anyone else likes it as long as I am happy with the finished product.
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That is the difference between a hobbyist and a professional. As I stated before your comments make statements about your professionalism.
 
#58
254 stringer said:
How would you know anything about my level of professionalism? I tend to like music that is not overproduced and the artist gets the final say. From experience when my first band went to the studio we didn't know anything and had free reign over everything. We recorded a piece of crap. We also learned a lot. I think more artisist would benefit from learning experiences like this.
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There are VERY few professional musicians that work without a producer. That is for 2 reasons:

1. A record label that you have a commitment to is not going to let you waste their money learning lessons.

2. Most professional musicians realize that they don't know everything and are often too close to their work so they need a trusted and proven extra set of ears.
 

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