Eden Forum Disappears

[agedhorse]

Thanks for the tip! I will give that a go..

Use the smallest amount of DeOxit D-5 possible, less is more. Otherwise, you caould end up ruining a set of pots as well.

IMO, you need to find a fully qualified service tech that understands how the circuit is supposed to work and has the troubleshooting skills to properly diagnose the symptoms. This does NOT sound like a "bad pot".

 

[Laurence D]

Use the smallest amount of DeOxit D-5 possible, less is more. Otherwise, you caould end up ruining a set of pots as well.

IMO, you need to find a fully qualified service tech that understands how the circuit is supposed to work and has the troubleshooting skills to properly diagnose the symptoms. This does NOT sound like a "bad pot".

Ok, will see if I can find someone that is qualified! Thanks
I’m not any where near qualified! Lol

 

[Bassmann1968]

Did you try to use an input on the back panel when the amp was fading out?
Just to see if the preamp or the power amp has the problem.

 

[Laurence D]

Did you try to use an input on the back panel when the amp was fading out?
Just to see if the preamp or the power amp has the problem.

No I didn’t. I cleaned all the imputes back and front with Deoxit 5 a couple of times. Have had the amp since new. Never abused or left in the elements or dropped.

 

[Laurence D]

No I didn’t. I cleaned all the imputes back and front with Deoxit 5 a couple of times. Have had the amp since new. Never abused or left in the elements or dropped.

All the lights lite up, the compressor is working as the light will blink when notes are played, just no sound!

 

[Rip Van Dan]

All the lights lite up, the compressor is working as the light will blink when notes are played, just no sound!

Don't know if you've already tried this or if I've already suggested it, but try to run a cord from the effects-send into the effects-return and see if you get sound that way. Since the gain set light is flashing we know that the signal is at least getting into the gain section of the preamp.

 

[Laurence D]

Don't know if you've already tried this or if I've already suggested it, but try to run a cord from the effects-send into the effects-return and see if you get sound that way. Since the gain set light is flashing we know that the signal is at least getting into the gain section of the preamp.

I will give that a try when I get home. I appreciate your help!

 

[MuthaFunk]

I’ve taken it to two techs here in Saskatoon but they couldn’t figure it out even with a schematic. We don’t have a dealer anymore as far as I know. I appreciate your time replying to this post.
Every thing lights up as it should, compressor light shows it’s getting signal from my bass just no sound. I cleaned all the jacks with a contact cleaner but no response. It will occasionally work fine for a few minutes and then it slowly fades out to nothing.
Laurence D

This kind of issue takes some skill to track down. I suspect it's heat related as a failed silicone part can sometimes work until it reaches a certain temp then it prematurely breaks down. Perhaps something like a voltage regulator, transistor, or in this case I'd take a close look with a scope at the power transistors. I'm sure your techs already looked at them though.

When the sound drops out does the headphones our effects out still work?

 

[Laurence D]

This kind of issue takes some skill to track down. I suspect it's heat related as a failed silicone part can sometimes work until it reaches a certain temp then it prematurely breaks down. Perhaps something like a voltage regulator, transistor, or in this case I'd take a close look with a scope at the power transistors. I'm sure your techs already looked at them though.

When the sound drops out does the headphones our effects out still work?

It’s not the gain clip light that is lighting up, it’s TV the active light for the compressor. I tried an instrument cable I know works and connected to effects send and effects send and still know sound when bass was connected. The head phones out is not working either.

 

[Laurence D]

It’s not the gain clip light that is lighting up, it’s TV the active light for the compressor. I tried an instrument cable I know works and connected to effects send and effects send and still know sound when bass was connected. The head phones out is not working either.

 

[Laurence D]

The amp is a Eden 405B manufactured 8/14/7. Don’t know if that matters or not.

 

[agedhorse]

With this symptom information, the first thing I would recommend to a tech (after verifying all the easy stuff) is to place a scope on the decoupled input to the comp and the decoupled output from the comp to verify that this section is working (or not working).

This will rule in or out an entire section of the amp, the section with the LED that's also not behaving like normal. IF the detector fails in a saturated condition, it can drive the gain cell to full attenuation. This is not unheard of.

That said, monitoring critical points in the amplifier's signal path will allow a tech to determine where and where not that fault may be.

 

[Laurence D]

I will see if I can find someone here in Saskatoon to take another look at it.
Thanks for your efforts! This amp is the sweetest sounding amp I have ever owned. I’ve had quite a few over the years. I also have an WT800C but still think the 405 sounds better.

 

[Bassmann1968]

It’s official, Gear4Music bought Eden.

 

[old_thumper]

Can anyone enlighten us as to what that means? Will there be any more new Eden stuff being built or will Eden be "officially" a thing of the past?

 

[Rip Van Dan]

The amp is a Eden 405B manufactured 8/14/7. Don’t know if that matters or not.

The 405B has slightly higher output at 2Ω than the original. It puts out 250-watts rms @ 8Ω, 405 watts @ 4Ω, and 720 watts @ 2Ω. The "A" version had the same ratings for 8Ω and 4Ω but the 2Ω power rating was 655-watts rms instead of the 720-watts of the "B" version.

 

[mbrain]

Can anyone enlighten us as to what that means? Will there be any more new Eden stuff being built or will Eden be "officially" a thing of the past?

That's a good question. As noted elsewhere, the purchase price was £140,000 (roughly $195,000 at today's exchange rate), with £40,000 up front and four annual £25,000 installments. Although that doesn't strike me as a huge number, the new owners have some incentive to make it work.

 

[edencab]

That's a good question. As noted elsewhere, the purchase price was £140,000 (roughly $195,000 at today's exchange rate), with £40,000 up front and four annual £25,000 installments. Although that doesn't strike me as a huge number, the new owners have some incentive to make it work.

that seems dirt cheap for a fairly large established Amp company....must have a had a lot of debt?...I mean that doesn't even seem enough to purchase inventory stock, never mind the goodwill/name of Eden Amps...

(note: I am no accountant and have no info or sense of these companies or know anything about any of my above purely speculative comments )

 

[old_thumper]

It’s official, Gear4Music bought Eden.

Even if Eden is no longer, I did recently acquire a 2nd used Eden WP100 Navigator.

It looked pristine. All the pots were had complete knobs and were quiet.

Everything was wonderful...until I tried to have it drive a Crown amp ( XLS1500 ). I even made sure the internal switch on the right-hand side of the top front board was set correctly for the higher output from the XLR outs. Still, the preamp would not drive the amp to a reasonable level of volume and seemed a bit distorted when turned up to higher levels (but below the red LED clipping indicators). I have verified that the amp, cables and bass are OK as I have another Navigator that works fine and drives the Crown amp to the volumes I expect.

I acquired from Guitar Center and they have it sent out to a tech. However, I have my doubts as they will most likely say everything works fine since they have some output from the XLRs. It would be wonderful if you might have a schematic of the Navigator that you can share. Both of the Navigators I have were made in 1998, if that helps.

 

[old_thumper]

With this symptom information, the first thing I would recommend to a tech (after verifying all the easy stuff) is to place a scope on the decoupled input to the comp and the decoupled output from the comp to verify that this section is working (or not working).

This will rule in or out an entire section of the amp, the section with the LED that's also not behaving like normal. IF the detector fails in a saturated condition, it can drive the gain cell to full attenuation. This is not unheard of.

That said, monitoring critical points in the amplifier's signal path will allow a tech to determine where and where not that fault may be.

Yes, 150 watts per driver sounds reasonable.

Older Eden drivers used a cone edge profile that was vulnerable to mechanical damage. Other manufacturers also used this profile and faced the same challenges when they claimed greater power handling based on thermal limits. The smaller the driver diameter, the more vulnerable the cone edge becomes. Changing the profile greatly improved this issue for all manufacturers. The failure was typically at the point where the surround which has a flat edge bonded with the cone’s flat edge transitions to the cone flare. Now, many cones remain tapered and the transition is done within the surround, or the edge is reinforced in another way.

It's been a while...the Covid got me back in February. Messed me up a bit. I was 2 weeks short of being eligible for the vaccine. Now I got both vaccines and the booster. Ain't tangling with that stuff again if I can help it.

Onto Eden things and such. The D210XLT Eden built speakers are out for recone. I got the recone kits from Simply Speakers. These Eden speakers were the 4 ohm variety and wired in series. Once that is done, I have a D410XST that that I believe was reconed but done poorly as I have one speaker that has come away from the frame at the surround and makes the flubby farty sounds. Simply Speakers or Speaker Exchange make the recone kits for these. After that, I'm all good on Eden bass cabs.

I have acquired an interesting beast of a cab used - Ampeg PR410HLF. 3/4" plywood everywhere. Large magnet made for Ampeg by Eminence 10s. The cab is a bit gawdy and weighs 128 lbs but it can crank out some low notes. The sensitivity is down a bit though - 96db. The drivers all have a crease line on the back side of the cone but no real crease lines or folds on the front. Are they salvageable? I have read that I can extend the life a bit by using rubberized super glue and possibly dope the speaker surrounds front and back. Has anyone tried this and had good results?

The good news is that Speaker Exchange does make recone kits for these speakers (even though they are OEM Eminence speakers). They will even optionally do the rubberized super glue reinforcement on the back of the cone where that crease can form to help extend the life. Again, does anyone have any inputs on this?

Are there modern 10" bass speakers that can be used in the PR410 HLF cab that have what Agedhorse described where there is a taper that allows the surround to take the stress more than the cone itself?

BTW, I've been using the D115XL with the D210XLT (that has the Delta 10s in it) for practice and gigs. Folks comment on the sound quality. People on this thread have advised me well on what my setup should be and it has paid off. Thanks all.