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Eden, really?
- Thread starter TSanders
- Start date
It's all interesting.
Innovation is not brand specific. True innovation is sometimes embraced by users, and then adopted / refined / progressed by competitors / inventors / developers as certain markets / passions demand or progress.
An innovation is an historical data point. Some examples: the internal combustion engine (which could become obsolete regardless of refinement), first electric guitar, first amp, first stereo recording, a trip to the moon, space travel in reuseable transport, or a certain sound from certain gear.
Innovation is not about the next great selling thing. That is marketing. Innovation is about invention, and sometimes improvement. If an innovater is unable to improve an innovation, are the innovater and innovation no longer valid?
Eden innovation exists. It is possible that it may not be progressing according to consumer expectation. One great killer of innovation in business is price / profit point. Will there actually be many people that will pay for the innovation of a truly new R&D'd tube amp? Where's the market? It's an answer to a question that I hear few people asking. There is pretty small incentive to make this product. And, someone that truly wants an uber tube amp knows where to go to get one.
Tube amps are old tech. Tubes are typically made overseas. It doesn't bother me a bit that Eden has a tube head made in China. The tube head market for bass players is likely very small. Someone may buy one and like it.
This is a case where Eden can't win. Try something different and be criticized. Do the same old thing and be criticized.
I think it's cool that we have choices for gear. It's not so cool when all of the non-chosen gear becomes subject to great criticism.
I see no such criticism for Mesa, Fender, Ampeg, et al, at least in terms of tube amp R&D. What are the innovations? Many of the innovations that do exist are criticized by the purists as being inferior. What innovations are needed in the field of tube amplification?
Tube amp R&D: where the goal is achieve the sound from the 1940s!
Since you quoted me, I should probably respond. As you see, I said "with this product". I was not stating that Eden was no longer an innovator AT ALL, just that there isn't a lot of room for innovation with a tube head that needs to hit a price point.
I think that we are agreeing here, but I just want to make myself clear. I was not saying anything negative about Eden.
I think that we are agreeing here, but I just want to make myself clear. I was not saying anything negative about Eden.
So, do folks judge a product on its merits, or on its supposed lineage? I would submit that anyone who has a Fender made after they closed the original factory in Fullerton is playing a "re-badged" Fender. Or is it one made after FMIC bought the company from CBS in 1985? Or is it one made after Leo sold the company in 1965? I'm so confused about what it is.
I haven't paid attention to the Eden tube amp in question, but is USM marketing it as an Eden design? Or is it just a product that they felt fit their product line and added value for their dealers?
jte
I haven't paid attention to the Eden tube amp in question, but is USM marketing it as an Eden design? Or is it just a product that they felt fit their product line and added value for their dealers?
jte
Well it's the first amp tagged as an Eden that ISN'T an Eden design, so of course most folks would (rightfully) assume that it IS.
Surely they can't be expected to market it as "a rebadged Chinese amp designed by whoknowswho that's sold under various names in various countries"!
It appears to be a product they could make a quick buck on by selling an economy priced all-tube with the Eden name.
Dude it's not even a Nemesis (nothing against the Nem amps, I have one and they are great)
The Eden is made by a company called Smarvo. They make tube and solid state amps for many companies who just put their names on them.
I have a brochure from the company from 5 years ago that has that particular design up for sale. The Eden version is flipped upside down.
Invalid Link Removed a link to a pic:
I have a brochure from the company from 5 years ago that has that particular design up for sale. The Eden version is flipped upside down.
Invalid Link Removed a link to a pic:
In this scenario, isn't it possible that the company in question contacted Eden for a distribution opportunity by a known entity?
In this case, the R&D is obviously somewhere else. Sounds like a different type of business opportunity for Eden, valid nonetheless.
Eden's 2008 "innovation" may be different ways of bringing varied products to the pipeline. Sounds like corporate survival . . .
In this case, the R&D is obviously somewhere else. Sounds like a different type of business opportunity for Eden, valid nonetheless.
Eden's 2008 "innovation" may be different ways of bringing varied products to the pipeline. Sounds like corporate survival . . .
"Tommy Boy" definitely doesn't suck as a movie. Perfect dead-pan Dan Akyroyd in that one.
BTW, I own an Eden Nemesis RS400. Unfortunately, economic circumstances may require me to sell it. I love it though. The tone, the quality, etc... For the $$$ I believe it was a good value.
Definitely not "real Eden" in some people's mind but I bought it because of the Eden badge and reviews.
I guess that makes me the "American public'.
No need to apologize for enjoying Nemesis gear. I've used Eden and Nemesis heads with great success and appreciation. The thing that is truly American is to have freedom of choice!
Your point is understandable. However, could you imagine if all of our products had design and origin disclosure statements for every component?
I would agree with this. I've never been an EDEN fan, but it always seemed to be common knowledge that Eden designed their own products and made a high quality product. I think it is deceptive for a few reasons.
1) Eden didn't design this amp.
2) As far as we know, Eden didn't even substantially modify this amp.
3) It's not made by Eden, which IIRC was the territory of the Nemesis line.
4) Having courted customers for years with certian expectations, Eden is flipping the script.
Eden is counting on thier previous record and the assumptions of customers to assume that this is -at the very least- an Eden designed amp. If as seems to be the case, this is a rebranded Smarvo, then I think at least, it should have been issued under the Nemesis line, which everyone knows is their "overseas" line.
That said, it still seems like a good deal for an amp, though I'd rather go with a VB2 or 300Pro. I'm so glad that I have TalkBass to smoke out these kind of "mini-deceptions".
When you read the ad copy, and I know you should always take this with a grain of salt, it certainly sounds like they designed it...
Our new all-tube E300T amplifier is the perfect blend of old and new. And made for those who always loved that old-school tone, but hated the expense and hassle.
We started with a classic, streamlined control set, then updated it with Overdrive switch to add extra grit from the preamp tubes and a Mid Shift switch (500Hz and 2.2KHz). The power section features a six-pack of KT-88s packing a 320W RMS wallop (@ 4 or 8 Ohms). Then we addressed the two major problems with tube amps. Allow us to explain:
Wouldn’t it be cool if you could replace a single tube if it failed or broke, instead of the entire set? And wouldn’t it be even cooler if you could fine-tune your bias setting for each tube quickly and easily every time you played? So you could have your perfect bias setting every time you turned the amp on? With the E300T, you can do both without the huge service bill. You’re welcome.
Other features include, -10dB Input Gain pad, 1/4" and NL-4 speaker output jacks, DI and tuner outs, Footswitch for Mute and Overdrive, 8/4 ohm selector, and bias adjustment section. Then we put it all in its own rugged, fan-cooled road casing with flow-through ventilation, just like the old days.
Let’s re-cap. Killer old-school tone. Massive power. Perfect bias every time. And easy, cost-effective maintenance. Beauty and the Beast, all in one.
Again, I really don't care who designed it. I'm happy that Eden is bringing what appears to be a popular design into the US to increase our choices when it comes to tube amps. I guess I just dislike Marketing Departments...
Our new all-tube E300T amplifier is the perfect blend of old and new. And made for those who always loved that old-school tone, but hated the expense and hassle.
We started with a classic, streamlined control set, then updated it with Overdrive switch to add extra grit from the preamp tubes and a Mid Shift switch (500Hz and 2.2KHz). The power section features a six-pack of KT-88s packing a 320W RMS wallop (@ 4 or 8 Ohms). Then we addressed the two major problems with tube amps. Allow us to explain:
Wouldn’t it be cool if you could replace a single tube if it failed or broke, instead of the entire set? And wouldn’t it be even cooler if you could fine-tune your bias setting for each tube quickly and easily every time you played? So you could have your perfect bias setting every time you turned the amp on? With the E300T, you can do both without the huge service bill. You’re welcome.
Other features include, -10dB Input Gain pad, 1/4" and NL-4 speaker output jacks, DI and tuner outs, Footswitch for Mute and Overdrive, 8/4 ohm selector, and bias adjustment section. Then we put it all in its own rugged, fan-cooled road casing with flow-through ventilation, just like the old days.
Let’s re-cap. Killer old-school tone. Massive power. Perfect bias every time. And easy, cost-effective maintenance. Beauty and the Beast, all in one.
Again, I really don't care who designed it. I'm happy that Eden is bringing what appears to be a popular design into the US to increase our choices when it comes to tube amps. I guess I just dislike Marketing Departments...
When I was crisin' the Eden web-site just after the release of the E300T I seem to remember something be made public about this head being made overseas, (pretty much like every other manufacturer these days). Can any of the Edenites shine any light?
LOL, that's a good one
just look at the pictures and tell me you personally and sincerely believe that statement
That's an amazing talent you have there olddog. Personally, I find it difficult to judge the preamp voicing of an amplifier based on its external appearance. Bravo! 
Until I get to see comparative schematics, or at least hear from someone that has compared these amps side by side, I am inclined to give Lane the benefit of the doubt.
Cheers,
Duff2
Until I get to see comparative schematics, or at least hear from someone that has compared these amps side by side, I am inclined to give Lane the benefit of the doubt.
Cheers,
Duff2
Well, like I've said before in other threads about this, it really doesn't matter to me where it's made.
The one I've played (several times) at my local dealer is a great sounding head, IMO. There's also a local player here who's gigging one nearly every weekend, and it seems to be holding up quite well.
The one I've played (several times) at my local dealer is a great sounding head, IMO. There's also a local player here who's gigging one nearly every weekend, and it seems to be holding up quite well.
So, Eden puts their name on a product they don't physically manufacture in their own plant. This is a big deal because they are considered by many to be one of the most trusted names in the bass amplification business. Some of you talk as though you have never shopped at Sears. Show me a Kenmore or Craftsman factory... I triple dog dare you.
I really have two questions.
1) Does Eden have a track record of design and manufacturing tube amps?
2) Is it reasonable to accept that Eden's current owners have admitted to themselves that they may not have the experience to design and manufacture a competitive product so they looked elsewhere this time, and maybe, just maybe their long-term plan is to develop expertise and expand the product line in the future?
I really have two questions.
1) Does Eden have a track record of design and manufacturing tube amps?
2) Is it reasonable to accept that Eden's current owners have admitted to themselves that they may not have the experience to design and manufacture a competitive product so they looked elsewhere this time, and maybe, just maybe their long-term plan is to develop expertise and expand the product line in the future?
