yes, on my 550 I cannot turn it up anywhere near half before it starts to clip. add any eqing into that and its a no show.
I have always found it a quiet amp.
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Eden vs. GK - More Warmth?
- Thread starter Hippos Melas
- Start date
yes, on my 550 I cannot turn it up anywhere near half before it starts to clip. add any eqing into that and its a no show.
I have always found it a quiet amp.
I love the LM III. I've played it several times and it's my favorite amp to try out basses on at GC. I've just stopped looking at it recently because I've heard of people trying to push that amp a bit and it starts sounding strained. I've also heard that EQing it with too much bass squashes the sound as well.
Ugh. To many things on the market that do the exact same thing minus a tad of highs or lows or watts whatever.
i never noticed it until the night i ab'd my lmii with my svt on a gig. then i noticed it. there was a point i was digging in really hard and i could feel the compression even at a low volume, whereas the svt dug in with me on every note. i think it's a great sounding amp but it does compress as you reach its outer limits in volume and dynamics.
yep, and there's always something new coming out in a month or two. what can you do?Ugh. To many things on the market that do the exact same thing minus a tad of highs or lows or watts whatever.
Well, crap, I don't want a Markbass head if it's going to compress the living daylights out of my signal. I'd rather have the GK head if it came down to it simply because I don't want my sound compressed (until I add a compressor of my own someday).
okcrum
in your chest
Interesting. What's the rest of your rig? I've gotten my WT405 to clip, but only by using a lot of bass boost to try to make up for cabs with too little low end (< 40 Hz). The fix was different cabs. On a dummy load, I can measure full rated power from both my 405 and 800A.
I've found a few meanings to "Warmth"
1. Added distortion and compression.
2. lack of highs
3. Both of the above.
You can always add compression and distortion, but it's impossible to take out if the head adds it when you don't want it.
Either amp you can turn the highs down on.
Keep in mind your Eden might be giving all its rated wattage with gain and Master both at noon. The knob positions are not indicative of the amount of power the amp has in reserve.
edwinhurwitz
Supporting Member
I got a WTX-500 to get something light and I figured 500 watts would do it. However, it does seem to run out of steam pretty quickly. However, I love the tone from the preamp section and when I need more oomph, I just run it into a Crest CA9. A little weird, but it does sound great.
If you consider Eden check out some used models. I've seen WT400 selling for $400.
I paid $800. for mine in 1997.
I paid $800. for mine in 1997.
FWIW, Eden's WT amps roll off the highs at around 12 kHz, which may contribute to their perceived warmth.
While the GK may not be voiced warm with the EQ set flat and the tweeters in your cabs opened up, it can do warm with some adjustements.
But if you are looking for warm, the bass and the strings will have as much if not more impact than the amp. As Jimmy said cut the tweeter and then go to the passive tone control next. Flat wounds or nickel rounds on a passive P should get you some warm.
I can coax some warm sounds out of my MB500. That is with the tweeters cuts, passive tone control on, and some treble cut on the MB500. I like starting with my MB500 set flat and then go from there. And when I say flat I mean flat frequency response. Fdeck did a frequency response of the a GK BL600 and found a near flat EQ setting. And the same settings applied to the MB500 sound close to me. They are something like cut treble -2, boost high mids +1, cut low mids -1, cut lows -3. I also think that with tweeters and highs cut, the GK boost or growl knob does add some "fur" to the sound that to me is in the warm slightly overdriven camp.
Invalid Link Removed
And then there is the VT Bass pedal that everyone seems to rave about. Never tried one but they do sound like they can get you close to some classic tube sounds.
But if you are looking for warm, the bass and the strings will have as much if not more impact than the amp. As Jimmy said cut the tweeter and then go to the passive tone control next. Flat wounds or nickel rounds on a passive P should get you some warm.
I can coax some warm sounds out of my MB500. That is with the tweeters cuts, passive tone control on, and some treble cut on the MB500. I like starting with my MB500 set flat and then go from there. And when I say flat I mean flat frequency response. Fdeck did a frequency response of the a GK BL600 and found a near flat EQ setting. And the same settings applied to the MB500 sound close to me. They are something like cut treble -2, boost high mids +1, cut low mids -1, cut lows -3. I also think that with tweeters and highs cut, the GK boost or growl knob does add some "fur" to the sound that to me is in the warm slightly overdriven camp.
Invalid Link Removed
And then there is the VT Bass pedal that everyone seems to rave about. Never tried one but they do sound like they can get you close to some classic tube sounds.
is the scoopy tone / low mid hump of the XLT cabinets influencing the conventional wisdom on the tone of the Eden heads?
I owned a Metro and a 210 xlt and enjoyed them. By the time I was gigging regularly, I was going through the Mesa M2000 that I traded the Metro for, and then traded that for my 800RB and a cab.
I love warm bass tone. I think my 800RB has it. I think the similar tones of the 1001 and 400RBIII have warmth. There's a little grind and cut to the tone, but I hear plenty of warmth underneath.
I owned a Metro and a 210 xlt and enjoyed them. By the time I was gigging regularly, I was going through the Mesa M2000 that I traded the Metro for, and then traded that for my 800RB and a cab.
I love warm bass tone. I think my 800RB has it. I think the similar tones of the 1001 and 400RBIII have warmth. There's a little grind and cut to the tone, but I hear plenty of warmth underneath.
I've tried Eden Amps in rental rooms a half dozen times, different rooms and settings and they really were not very good...
edwinhurwitz
Supporting Member
I had the same experience. Every time I saw Eden on the backline I inwardly groaned. However, now I like them! Go figure.
I never used them in a rehearsal room or other small space. It might be different once they get into a bigger space.
JazznFunk
Supporting Member
The Eden EQ is pretty powerful... use it to your advantage. I use an older Nemesis NA320 head and also a WTX500 head. I use a combination of SWR 1x15 and 2x10 cabs with the Nemesis, and a 20-year-old Goliath with my WTX500. By massaging the high end and boosting a small amount of bass, I can achieve a warmth out of a 'modern' amp that most find elusive. Don't overdo it with EQ... it's not there to polish a turd, but used well it can achieve great things. I highly recommend Eden AND SWR stuff, even though it's not the 'flavor of the month'. I prefer Eden heads versus SWR (I just have to cut more highs with SWR heads), but I know them well enough to get my sound with the right tweaking. Use what you know and like. Regarding the Eden and SWR wattage ratings, if you really need more than 400/500 watts, your bandmates need to turn down. Taking that further, I can gig with a 200-watt setup comfortably and still be TOO loud at times. Quality over quantity, gang.
I own a Eden Metro, very big and fat sounding, the eq works very well, although flat seems to work best for my basses. The low end that comes from the tuning of the 210 cabinet really sounds very much like a mini SVT. I dig it! Your leg hairs will move.
To my ears GK stuff is very aggressive sounding, snappy and metallic. While that may work great for some genres, it is not that flexible. Turning down tweeters and drastic EQ curves causes some odd things to happen in the overall response of the instrument.
Another vote for Eden
To my ears GK stuff is very aggressive sounding, snappy and metallic. While that may work great for some genres, it is not that flexible. Turning down tweeters and drastic EQ curves causes some odd things to happen in the overall response of the instrument.
Another vote for Eden
edwinhurwitz
Supporting Member
I definitely understand what you are going for here. However, I like to be able to set my amp flat and then EQ for artistic reasons and send that eq'd signal to FOH. If I am playing with the cabinet controls to get my tone, the signal that goes out front won't reflect that, unless the cabinet is mic'ed. So, it depends on cabinets that are somewhat PA like in response, although at least 50% of the time these days I am using in ears, so the cabs don't matter nearly as much.
I've discovered that the Eden WTX tone controls work great for this, although a little goes a very long way.
I typically set my tweeter once and its done. If our poster is not playing big rooms, there's a good chance he is running enough tweeter for three times the speakers he is using and this is why his band mates want him to be warmer.
As for flat. Just because the knobs are not all at 12 oclock, doesn't mean you can't start flat sonically and adjust from there. And all that can get sent FOH post EQ. Its just hard to get used to "flat" being "non flat" when you look at it. In fact I would guess that most bass amps are anything but flat when they are set flat.
When I use in ears, the vintage tone control along with pickup pan are my gotos for warm. In fact if in ears are the way, forget the amp and get an Avalon U5.
I'm playing in a massive auditorium. We even practice there, and yes, we're using a Fender Bassman 100 or something to that effect with a tweeter in it. Stupid thing's as shrill as it gets. Some of the amp's features are alright but not great. It's just not idea for what we're doing (big band jazz). I should probably invest in a fretless or something at some point just to get more similar tone coming from my bass to the amp, but for now I'm not interested in buying basses, I need a better amp (I just have a practice amp anyhow).
From what I've gathered, I can figure that just about any amp can do what I want but some do it better than others. Since I'm rather limited on funds, I might just go with the GK MB500, a 210, and roll down the highs with some bass and low mid boost. I just can't afford to throw tons of money into a tube amp right now.
From what I've gathered, I can figure that just about any amp can do what I want but some do it better than others. Since I'm rather limited on funds, I might just go with the GK MB500, a 210, and roll down the highs with some bass and low mid boost. I just can't afford to throw tons of money into a tube amp right now.
