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Eden vs. GK - More Warmth?
- Thread starter Hippos Melas
- Start date
Eden.
I was a GK 400RB user for something like 10 years. This isnt fair cause it has nothing to do with their current amp offerings, but once i realized I wasnt gonna get hired to play funk or fusion any time soon it became evident to me that old school tone was where it was at.
The older Eden amps with the "golden ear chip" sound almost indistinguishable from tube tone if not attack- I'd never sell my WTX-260.
I see decent "david Nordshow" era Edens at GC all the time with ridiculous $400.00 pricetags on them for amps that when they were new sold for three times that!
I saw a used "DN" era Eden in Jim Mouradians' shop a few weeks ago with a similar price tag on it. I bet its still there, they are decent guys to do business with.
Of course nothing beats Mesa Boogie for tone!
I was a GK 400RB user for something like 10 years. This isnt fair cause it has nothing to do with their current amp offerings, but once i realized I wasnt gonna get hired to play funk or fusion any time soon it became evident to me that old school tone was where it was at.
The older Eden amps with the "golden ear chip" sound almost indistinguishable from tube tone if not attack- I'd never sell my WTX-260.
I see decent "david Nordshow" era Edens at GC all the time with ridiculous $400.00 pricetags on them for amps that when they were new sold for three times that!
I saw a used "DN" era Eden in Jim Mouradians' shop a few weeks ago with a similar price tag on it. I bet its still there, they are decent guys to do business with.
Of course nothing beats Mesa Boogie for tone!
nukes_da_bass said:
Few companies that have been around a while that haven't sold out. Eden's fall from grace is to blame on their customer service years ago that went on for years. There are many threads on that, but yeah it would be nice to see Edens made in the USA, but look up Ampeg's heritage line and see the prices as to why so many companies have moved production overseas. Neither here nor there, to me I like the tone and flexibility of Edens. I grabbed a '98 WT800 and rack case for $699 but there are 400s etc out there for supercheap. Not for everyone, but I dig them. No, I would argue the Mesa comment, had many of their amps, not happy with the company. Made in US, but very beatable. Depends on the ears listening to them.
Few thoughts...
1 - You either love or hate the GK sound.
2 - You can't make a GK not to sound like a GK.
3 - If you love and crave the GK sound, nothing will do it for you.
4 - An EDEN will have many sounds, it will take a while for you to find yours, or you may never find it. If you do, you'll love it and become a fan...
1 - You either love or hate the GK sound.
2 - You can't make a GK not to sound like a GK.
3 - If you love and crave the GK sound, nothing will do it for you.
4 - An EDEN will have many sounds, it will take a while for you to find yours, or you may never find it. If you do, you'll love it and become a fan...
I agree, I bought my QP P years ago to get a clearer sound but, they just struck me as being hot.
For the OP if you're using SS rounds or even NPS a change to some nickels might do the trick and would be a cheap experiment.
- Apr 3, 2003
- 35,515
- 19,941
- Disclosures
- Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
I think that folks have done a pretty good job of generalizing the Eden vs GK tone, but I'll just point out that the WTX500 and the WT550 are fairly different heads, and sound a good bit different. The WT550 (which I own) would definitely give you that warm tone you are after. The WT405 is yet another option from Eden that is yet another different smallish amp design. I'd put it in between the WTX500 and WT550, tonally. It's a great little head, too, and depending upon the cabs and other related gear, sometimes I prefer the WT550 and sometimes I prefer the WT405.
Oh, and I'm also a huge GK fan, but it does sound like you are gravitating more towards the Eden (or Mesa/Boogie) tone profile.
Tom.
Oh, and I'm also a huge GK fan, but it does sound like you are gravitating more towards the Eden (or Mesa/Boogie) tone profile.
Tom.
Love that post, Alex. Well put.
To answer the first question: Eden's are warmer. That's why I bought one over the GK. The GK was VERY impressive, especially for the price and clarity, but sounded sterile to my ears compared to the Eden or Markbass. But I'd guess that a GK would cut through a mix like no other - so if that is your priority, then it would be a good choice. These days I play at a more reasonable volume with people who are like minded. Blend is more important than cut. But not everyone has the same needs.
About Edens, there are three eras. The originals, then they were sold, then sold again and are now manufactured in China. Strangely enough, the China models are not the bad ones - they actually returned quality to the line. It's the middle era which I've been told is around 2007-2008 where quality control and customer service went down the tubes.
This Eden forum is loaded with great info about them:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
Other posts here are correct - Eden suffered a huge blow to its reputation in that middle era and have fallen out of favor by many who aren't aware of its return to quality, or are bothered by the high prices for an outsourced amp.
I'm not 100% sure on this, but I think the deal is that they now have two lines - old stock at high prices and new stock (with new model names) at lower prices. For example the E series is the new, less expensive China made cabinet. I'm guessing that the D series is simply old stock made elsewhere that remains available because it is overstocked in warehouses.
To answer the first question: Eden's are warmer. That's why I bought one over the GK. The GK was VERY impressive, especially for the price and clarity, but sounded sterile to my ears compared to the Eden or Markbass. But I'd guess that a GK would cut through a mix like no other - so if that is your priority, then it would be a good choice. These days I play at a more reasonable volume with people who are like minded. Blend is more important than cut. But not everyone has the same needs.
About Edens, there are three eras. The originals, then they were sold, then sold again and are now manufactured in China. Strangely enough, the China models are not the bad ones - they actually returned quality to the line. It's the middle era which I've been told is around 2007-2008 where quality control and customer service went down the tubes.
This Eden forum is loaded with great info about them:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
Other posts here are correct - Eden suffered a huge blow to its reputation in that middle era and have fallen out of favor by many who aren't aware of its return to quality, or are bothered by the high prices for an outsourced amp.
I'm not 100% sure on this, but I think the deal is that they now have two lines - old stock at high prices and new stock (with new model names) at lower prices. For example the E series is the new, less expensive China made cabinet. I'm guessing that the D series is simply old stock made elsewhere that remains available because it is overstocked in warehouses.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: I LOVE Eden tone. If I had the budget and the space for a recording-only rig it would be Eden beyond a shadow of a doubt.
I don't, though. My rigs need to do double-duty on gigs as well, and I have found, on all the Eden's and Nemesis' I've owned and used, that they won't reliably give me more than 12:00 on gain and master before the amp starts to cut out.
So if I were you, I wouldn't be counting on getting 500w out of an Eden 500w head. I'd be banking on getting quite a bit less.
I don't, though. My rigs need to do double-duty on gigs as well, and I have found, on all the Eden's and Nemesis' I've owned and used, that they won't reliably give me more than 12:00 on gain and master before the amp starts to cut out.
So if I were you, I wouldn't be counting on getting 500w out of an Eden 500w head. I'd be banking on getting quite a bit less.
That's a really good point. The actual volume of an amp seldom matches the wattage number advertised. Interestingly, I bought an Eden 405 because when I paired it with their XLT cabinet it really roared in an outdoor setting. On the other hand, I really love the tone of the Markbass amp LMiii but it sounded less loud to me than the advertised wattage.
Wow, very, very informative posts. Thanks guys!
Are all of these micro heads going to sound like a bit "less than what they're rated (watts)"? I've heard this complaint about just about EVERY amp on the market. I heard it first with Genz, then with Markbass, and now Eden. Are there any amps that don't start to futz out before you want them to, or am I just not experienced enough in the high powered micro amp world?
Are all of these micro heads going to sound like a bit "less than what they're rated (watts)"? I've heard this complaint about just about EVERY amp on the market. I heard it first with Genz, then with Markbass, and now Eden. Are there any amps that don't start to futz out before you want them to, or am I just not experienced enough in the high powered micro amp world?
Yeah, well that's exactly why I would lose them - except to me it wasn't a little - it was a bunch of Low mids.
To my ear, the QP's don't have the vibe of an older J... to my ear you give up too much in the true low's - the hi's of a good single coil I can deal with through EQ roll off. Getting rid of some of that low mid mud and reinforcing the the low's isn't as simple a task...
Glad they worked in the P Lyte though... bass to bass, you never can tell until you mess with it ...
right on.
btw, i so don't get this eden is warm stuff. sorry but i hear it so much differently from most of you. is it just this one model of head, the wt500, that's warm?
- Apr 3, 2003
- 35,515
- 19,941
- Disclosures
- Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
Nope. The GK micros and the TC Electronic RH450 certainly sound like they are delivering all the promised wattage.
I would check out a Markbass Little Mark III as well if you get a chance. Warmest sounding solid state amp I have played yet.
The fact that Eden is no longer talked about is nothing new. Hartke was a big deal years ago now no one wants them. I can’t speak on the quality of the new Eden equipment, mine is from 04-05. What I will say is wait until something new comes along, and the GB Shuttles and the LM will stop being the thing to have. IMHO it’s a case of keeping up with the Joneses. I am not saying that GB, or LM are not good, they are just the new hotness, you see it all the time on these forums.
I had the Wtx-500 and I own an MB fusion. The eden was good but the tone stack takes a little to get used to. Volume wise IMO the GK crushes it. All in all I would say the Eden has a warmer tone. Like others said describing what your looking for, I'd be looking for something from Eden's WT series or a walkabout.
I love the WTX series of Edens but I've been told that when you push them, the distortion is that nasty digital distortion sound - not usable. So you need to be especially careful that you get enough power if you're buying this line.
The Golden Ear chip that's in the WTX's is very impressive in my opinion.
I agree with Adrian, the Little Mark iii is a wonderfully warm amp. More than just warm, it has its own personal character - so you need to hear it for yourself and be sure that it's the sound for you. Personally, I love it.
The Golden Ear chip that's in the WTX's is very impressive in my opinion.
I agree with Adrian, the Little Mark iii is a wonderfully warm amp. More than just warm, it has its own personal character - so you need to hear it for yourself and be sure that it's the sound for you. Personally, I love it.
Tubes= warmth
I am a GK fan and can pretty much get any tone I want except the tube sound.
My advice is, try and match cabs and heads no matter what you get ( only my opinion but consider the fact that the cabs are tuned for that head) and don't change your sound unless you want to. And if you want a vintage sound, go vinatge. A P or J bass through and ampeg tubed head. Maybe flatwounds.
Good luck
I am a GK fan and can pretty much get any tone I want except the tube sound.
My advice is, try and match cabs and heads no matter what you get ( only my opinion but consider the fact that the cabs are tuned for that head) and don't change your sound unless you want to. And if you want a vintage sound, go vinatge. A P or J bass through and ampeg tubed head. Maybe flatwounds.
Good luck
