Eden WT800 settings

[Bluesbob]

I agree that running it in Bi-amp mode (ie. using the cross-over to send different frequencies to each side) is a waste of time. But going dual-mono would be the best way to set it up IME, especially if you don't want to harm your speakers. A WT800B or C is capable of driving a 4-ohm load in bridged mode, that's true. But the specs say it puts out 1100 watts, plus 3dB of headroom (2200 watts peak power). You can damage a single 15 and/or a 2X10 cab with that much power. Plus (again IME), the WT800B and C sound better in dual-mono. Think of dual-mono as two separate amps with a single input. It's true you won't get as much power running that way, but there is a limit to what your speakers can handle anyway, so the power output doesn't matter as much. You still will be putting about 300 watts into each cab, with that 3dB of headroom (600 watts peak). That should be more than enough. If it's not, you need more speakers and/or cabs, not watts.
I only use my WT800B in bridged mode (1100 watts at 4 ohms) with a 4X10 (or larger) speaker cab, and only if the cab is rated that high. And I use a compressor (dbx 160xt). Even then, the WT800B has the power (in bridged mode) to destroy just about every cab made with those power specs, which are subject to fudging by marketing departments. So my advice is to play it safe, and use it in dual-mono, whether you have the WT800A(a,b,c,d) or the WT800B or C.
As far as settings, I think turning OFF the enhance is the best thing to do, unless using the amp for recording or with headphones. The frequencies that the enhance control boost are at about 30 Hz. and 6kHz. (I think), but it cuts the most important part of the tone, the low mids and mid-bass. These are the parts of the sonic spectrum that cut through and give a bass punch in the mix. I use a Schroeder 410L for nearly everything now. I either use an Eden WT550 for "low volume" gigs or the WT800B for larger venues or when I have to be loud enough. The Schroeder has lots of mids and mid-bass, but very little real low bass. That's fine with me, as most of those low frequencies should be handled by the FOH and PA amps and speakers, not by a stage rig. But I can still use the Eden EQ to get a bass tone that sits in the mix. Remember that the Eden EQ is really powerful (maybe even too powerful). A little goes a long way. My settings for Oldies, Motown and classic rock (which is what I play on a passive P-bass) are as follows:
Compressor - BYPASS (I do this with the WT550 too, even without the dbx)
Enhance -OFF
Gain 1:00
Bass 12:00
Low ~125 Hz. @ 1:00
Mid ~400 Hz. @ 1:00
High ~2200 @ 11:00
Treble 12:00
Note that these settings are for bridged mono, but since it is still a single input, there shouldn't be much difference.
I don't use the balance control, but with two cabs you might want to hold a note (maybe E at 7th fret, A string), turn the balance control knob, and see where you get the tone you like.
With these settings, and running two 8-ohm cabs in dual-mono, the WT800 (A,B or C) shouldn't be breaking a sweat. Turning up the master volume should be able to make the speakers break up, so be careful.
If you can't get a satisfactory volume using those two cabs and a WT800, maybe something needs to be looked at by a qualified tech.
Good luck.

 

[Bluesbob]

You could join the Eden forum and ask your question over there. Lots of info about Edens.

 

[KJung]

You could join the Eden forum and ask your question over there. Lots of info about Edens.

Per your post above... I agree you would not want to bridge into a single 8ohm cab, but bridging into those two relatively large, high power handling Mesa's will work fine. It is ALWAYS better to apply more power than needed and be a little careful, than to buy a head and use only a fraction of its power and also not taking full advantage of the speaker cabs potential.

Remember, his 210 plus 115 is quite similar to your high power rated 410 example.

That being said, along with bridging, there seems to be a common belief that boosting a bit of low mids/upper bass in that 125hz region is KEY for fattening up and punching up the Eden heads. That's pretty much the only tweak I ever felt I had to do with my Edens back in the day... just a bit of punch/meat in the upper bass/lower mids.

 

[Bluesbob]

I agree that it would work, and that might be the way to run it, but I don't know what kind of shape his cabs are in, or even what model they are. And I still think the Eden amps sound better (smoother, fuller) when run conservatively.
Again, if volume is not satisfactory, more cone area is in order, as well.

 

[KJung]

I agree that it would work, and that might be the way to run it, but I don't know what kind of shape his cabs are in, or even what model they are. And I still think the Eden amps sound better (smoother, fuller) when run conservatively.
Again, if volume is not satisfactory, more cone area is in order, as well.

+1 lots of unknowns. If those Mesa cabs are relatively recent, they are hammers. That 210 will bury some 410's!

 

[12bass]

The revision of the amp and the specific cabinets in question remain a mystery. If the OP would fill us in on these details, it would help considerably.

 

[Bean639]

I play a wt800d thru 2 410xlt's. I cant remember if these cabs are 4 or 8 ohms each. whatever they are, i do know that they are matching. I have always run this setup dual mono.

My question is if i can/should run my setup bridged? I know this greatly depends on my cab impedance, but in either case is this something i can do? If so, how?

again, sorry i cant remember. ive had this setup for about 7 years now.

 

[KJung]

I play a wt800d thru 2 410xlt's. I cant remember if these cabs are 4 or 8 ohms each. whatever they are, i do know that they are matching. I have always run this setup dual mono.

My question is if i can/should run my setup bridged? I know this greatly depends on my cab impedance, but in either case is this something i can do? If so, how?

again, sorry i cant remember. ive had this setup for about 7 years now.

It totally depends on impedance. If those two big cabs are 4ohm, then you are running them perfectly in dual mono mode. If they are 8ohm, you are running at half power, and you should bridge.

Impedance is key. If you bridge into two 4ohm cabs, your amp will let out the magic smoke the first time it is really pushed.

If you have a later WT800 and your XLT's are 8ohm, then you set the WT to bridge mode, and daisy chain the cabs.

 

[Munjibunga]

You have a beast of an amp and you're only using about 450 watts of its potential. Try bridging the amp(full range of course) into the 15 by itself. You'll be pushing 800 watts in that configuration. If you have a B or C version run both cabs the same way and you'll be pushing 1100 watts. Give it a try, That may get you where you want to go.

Careful there. Bridging an 800- or 1,100-watt amp into a 350-watt cabinet could have undesirable effects if you are't judicious in the manipulation of the gain structure.

 

[Bean639]

Pretty sure they are 4ohms now that i think about it. Actually now that i am thinking, that was kinda a stupid question

thanks tho!

 

[KJung]

Pretty sure they are 4ohms now that i think about it. Actually now that i am thinking, that was kinda a stupid question

thanks tho!

Not a stupid question at all.

 

[okcrum]

I agree that running it in Bi-amp mode (ie. using the cross-over to send different frequencies to each side) is a waste of time.

Actually, with the cabs I use, it sounds like a waste of time on stage.

Way out on the floor, it's not a waste. There is far less interference between the different size drivers in the mids. Makes having a wireless worth it.

 

[okcrum]

Careful there. Bridging an 800- or 1,100-watt amp into a 350-watt cabinet could have undesirable effects if you are't judicious in the manipulation of the gain structure.

+1. No need to be launching drivers.

 

[KJung]

Careful there. Bridging an 800- or 1,100-watt amp into a 350-watt cabinet could have undesirable effects if you are't judicious in the manipulation of the gain structure.

Everyone is confused here. He would not be bridging the amp into a single small 8ohm cab, but rather TWO 8ohm cabs, resulting in 475 to 550 watts per cab (depending on the WT800 model). This is perfect for a relatively high powered cab with good (300-500 watt) power handling.

So, again, you would be bridging a 1000 watt or so amp into TWO 8ohm cabs.... ZERO issue here...

The current Mesa Powehouse 115 is rated at 600 watts by the way.

 

[KJung]

Actually, with the cabs I use, it sounds like a waste of time on stage.

Way out on the floor, it's not a waste. There is far less interference between the different size drivers in the mids. Makes having a wireless worth it.

Disagree. Driver size has VERY little to do with midrange response, and if the cabs are stacked vertically, it is pretty much a zero issue. By biamping, you are removing the low end from a cab that can handle it, putting all the low end strain (where the meat of your tone is) through a single cab. Makes no sense at all IMO.

Bi-amping the upper mids and treble into a small driver at low power does make sense. Dividing your amp in half and arbitrarily sending the bass and lower mids through one full range cab and the mid mids on up into another full range cabinet is not a positive thing. I think this idea originally made sense when there was more of a correlation between driver size and bass response (i.e., before there were 10's and 12's that could really kick down low). Today... not so much.

 

[okcrum]

Everyone is confused here. He would not be bridging the amp into a single small 8ohm cab, but rather TWO 8ohm cabs, resulting in 475 to 550 watts per cab (depending on the WT800 model). This is perfect for a relatively high powered cab with good (300-500 watt) power handling.

So, again, you would be bridging a 1000 watt or so amp into TWO 8ohm cabs.... ZERO issue here...

True, but I'm not sure about the benefit if the cabs start farting out at 60-70% of their maximum rated power. That'd be about the power per cab the OP would get running a cab from each channel, without having the balance control. If he had two cabs with the same size drivers, I'd be more inclined to bridge. Two fridges bridged on that amp would be seismic.

 

[KJung]

True, but I'm not sure about the benefit if the cabs start farting out at 60-70% of their maximum rated power. That'd be about the power per cab the OP would get running a cab from each channel, without having the balance control. If he had two cabs with the same size drivers, I'd be more inclined to bridge. Two fridges bridged on that amp would be seismic.

I've never experienced a relatively large high quality cab fart out at 500 watts unless the bass was boosted to stupid levels (which of course, sounds bad even prior to the speakers reaching xmax). Again, zero issue. Also remember, hi pass filtering and the correlation between marketing power specs and the real output of the amp make a huge difference also. Just as many cabinets rated at 500 watts can't really use all of them, many 1000 watt heads really do not put that full power out at the full frequency spectrum of the bass guitar.

The big issue here is, will that WT800 be limiting at that very low power level (maybe a couple/three hundred watts or so per cab running 8ohm dual mono). My guess is, it will, and that the OP's issues have to do with this issue more than EQ. Nothing worse that running into power amp limiting when pushing an amp... especially if you are running that amp at a fraction of its capabilities due to user error.

The difference in punch and full, open low end will be STUNNING to the OP if in fact he has relatively recent Mesa Powerhouse cabs and a b or later WT800. Been there, done that

 

[okcrum]

I've never experienced a relatively large high quality cab fart out at 500 watts unless the bass was boosted to stupid levels (which of course, sounds bad even prior to the speakers reaching xmax). Again, zero issue. Also remember, hi pass filtering and the correlation between marketing power specs and the real output of the amp make a huge difference also. Just as many cabinets rated at 500 watts can't really use all of them, many 1000 watt heads really do not put that full power out at the full frequency spectrum of the bass guitar.

The big issue here is, will that WT800 be limiting at that very low power level (maybe a couple/three hundred watts or so per cab running 8ohm dual mono). My guess is, it will, and that the OP's issues have to do with this issue more than EQ. Nothing worse that running into power amp limiting when pushing an amp... especially if you are running that amp at a fraction of its capabilities due to user error.

The difference in punch and full, open low end will be STUNNING to the OP if in fact he has relatively recent Mesa Powerhouse cabs and a b or later WT800. Been there, done that

Yeah, I see. Whether the amp's limiting or not, you mean absolutely, right, hitting the power supply rails? Not just hitting the compressor I'm guessing.

From what I've measured, the Edens don't lie too much about their power ratings, unless they did not bump the power transformer size up for the 800 b/c. This is from looking at my 405 and 800a. I don't buy the 3dB of headroom thing, though. These aren't Class G/H amps.

 

[KJung]

Yeah, I see. Whether the amp's limiting or not, you mean absolutely, right, hitting the power supply rails? Not just hitting the compressor I'm guessing.

From what I've measured, the Edens don't lie too much about their power ratings, unless they did not bump the power transformer size up for the 800 b/c. This is from looking at my 405 and 800a. I don't buy the 3dB of headroom thing, though. These aren't Class G/H amps.

Either absolutely, or more commonly, hitting the power amp limiting circuitry, which pretty much sounds the same as a speaker exceeding xmax (or whatever.... in other words, you start to lose low end and volume, and your sound starts sounding like a compressor set too high).

I'm not talking about the preamp limiting though, but rather the non adjustable power amp limiting built into many amps.

Again, no cut and dry rules here. If you are really pumping massive wattage and low end into a relatively small box, you can get in trouble. And, while 'underpowering' will not hurt drivers (although it can blow the hell out of tweeters by the end of the night if you are really pounding), having not enough power to handle the transient peaks at the volume you are playing can be a very frustrating thing IMO and IME.

 

[okcrum]

Either absolutely, or more commonly, hitting the power amp limiting circuitry, which pretty much sounds the same as a speaker exceeding xmax (or whatever.... in other words, you start to lose low end and volume, and your sound starts sounding like a compressor set too high).

Oh yeah. That is one fugly sound. Almost as bad as hitting the compressor in these amps hard to get that 3 dB "headroom". The 405 and their other amps with the THAT4301 chip are light years better sounding in that respect.

I'm not talking about the preamp limiting though, but rather the non adjustable power amp limiting built into many amps.

Yeah I understand that.

Again, no cut and dry rules here. If you are really pumping massive wattage and low end into a relatively small box, you can get in trouble. And, while 'underpowering' will not hurt drivers (although it can blow the hell out of tweeters by the end of the night if you are really pounding), having not enough power to handle the transient peaks at the volume you are playing can be a very frustrating thing IMO and IME.

Well, that's cutting to the chase. The pluck/pick transient is what we build our rigs to handle.

EDIT: In terms of headroom, that is. Please, no tone flaming.