Eden WT800C amp woes!! Anyone else having Problems?

[BassIan]

That won't do a darn thing. You guys need to understand what kind of cases the BBB gets involved with. You'd have to show the Eden willfully ignores customers, and is actively involved in intentionally providing bad products in order to take people's money. With the history and reputation Eden has, any such claim would be laughed at. The company had an issue with 2 new products out of many they've released. Now they're back logged getting them fixed b/c of a move and lack of support personel. The BBB won't be able to do jack about something like this. You'll be wasting your time, especially since Eden is working to fix the issue.

All this mouthing off is getting out of hand. I know some of you are upset, but Eden is trying. If anyone really wanted your money back before now, I'm sure they could have gotten it. But hope for that perfect amp has caused them to hanging on. That's not an issue for the BBB.

You would absolutely not feel this way if this was your amp and you had received such terrible service from Eden. I don't know why you're being an antagonist here. You certainly haven't helped fix the problem, nor have you helped svt15b even just feel reassured.

So Eden's backlogged? Why don't they just say "We're backlogged, we'll have your amp for 2 months, but please be assured that it will be working top-notch when you get it back. We don't just hire anybody - we want our techs to get the amps out perfectly before they get them out quickly." I'm sure that would have gone a long way towards soothing the pain of being without an amp. Perhaps they don't have another of the exact model to ship out, but no talk of a loaner or anything to use while the new amp is in the shop. It also doesn't sound like your store was very willing to go to bat for you either, svt15b.

No matter how busy or backlogged a company gets, there is no excuse for keeping paying customers waiting and for deleting their posts about the concerns. There are so many ways that this could have been handled that are well within the abilities of an understaffed company. Don't try to play off like Eden's a small company, either.

 

[svtb15]

Somewhat Positive update today.
There have been some very peaceful yet forceful emails between me and Eden top bras the past few months. Some not that nice personally directed at me, and me having to defend myself and set the record straight..

I got an email today that finally addressed all of my concerns and other peoples concerns in this forum and edens.
I was going to bat for myself in the beginning but later realized others had similar issues, that needed addressing... Big MikeW really helped.. He has much experience and is very insightful..
Well I got an email that addressed every issue , and they (eden) seem to finally get it..The proof is in the pudding as they say.
And for that I am thankful.. I wish it did not have to go this long and did not tie up my money for 3 months...
Lets see what goes down this week.

 

[svtb15]

perhaps you are right.. but to set the record straight to all who read.. I did not make those remarks.. others may have added to the fire... but mine was a legitimate request to see if others have had similar problems.. and what they are doing to help address the issue.

This is total BS. Lots of posts are still there about the wt800c problem. That one post was deleted because it contain incendiary comments and posts toward Eden, who owns the forum might I add. That's not censorship. It's a private forum, owned and operated by the manufacturer, so they can delete anything they want.

 

[BigMikeW]

Somewhat Positive update today.
There have been some very peaceful yet forceful emails between me and Eden top bras the past few months. Some not that nice personally directed at me, and me having to defend myself and set the record straight..

I got an email today that finally addressed all of my concerns and other peoples concerns in this forum and edens.
I was going to bat for myself in the beginning but later realized others had similar issues, that needed addressing... Big MikeW really helped.. He has much experience and is very insightful..
Well I got an email that addressed every issue , and they (eden) seem to finally get it..The proof is in the pudding as they say.
And for that I am thankful.. I wish it did not have to go this long and did not tie up my money for 3 months...
Lets see what goes down this week.

You're too kind. Glad I could help (if I did).

 

[svtb15]

If anyone really wanted your money back before now, I'm sure they could have gotten it. But hope for that perfect amp has caused them to hanging on. .

I am not sure you are aware of all the facts that I don’t want to get into again. But will give you a brief rundown to stay on topic.
After 60 days, the CC company does not make a chargeback easy. The store is not helpful after that period of time.
The promise of repair dragged on for over 60 days. That is on a new out of box amp.

Being fortunate enough to have almost as many bass rigs as Tom Bowlus allowed me to be patient for a period of time.. Well Actually,,, no one has as many rigs as Tom Bowlus not even NAMM.

But one repair then 2 repairs on the same amp and the issue not being resolved but made worse in some cases. Me asking for a new amp.. being declined on that request the first 2 months by David Norcshow himself in direct email, because they do not have any.
Then being asked to send it in for a 3rd time to repair is silly.

Things have transpired and hopefully we can get this settled. My money is out there. Lots of it too..

Eublet,I have seen you on the Eden forum a lot, and are an Advance Member there. I understand that you are a huge fan of Eden as I was, but you may be green or in awe of your master.
That’s all ok..

However putting ones head in the sand does not make an issue disappear. It has to be addressed. And without the public awareness that is allowed by the internet that would just go unchecked.
BAssist30 said it very well.. The net can make companies accountable.. Eden may be small but they are owned by a larger Corp US Music which seems to be where the problems are starting as told to me by a person inside Eden..

After doing research I found that US Music has Eight BBB complaints against them this year.

Just because you may not have your complaint address by the BBB, should not discourage anyone from filing a complaint.
It is your prerogative if you feel a business practice is not kosher.. Regardless...Don’t be dictated to by a corporate stranglehold just because we are the small guy.
We all have to speak up. This is America... And right will always prevail even it if take time.. But persistence will pay off..
Even in this bass playing world.. persistence, practice, endurance, skill, knowledge, location, people skills, networking and taking the right steps at the right time, and being in the right place will get you to stop dreaming of playing Madison Square but actually playing the gig and get paid for it...
I think all things are possible. Period..
Sorry for the tangent folks.

 

[rockstarbassist]

Nope, yours is well-deserved, which is why I asked who was getting the Eden hush-money on here, as it seemed... Nobody deserves this kind of dis/service I don't care who you are.

 

[SteveC]

My amp is back after 3 weeks and working fine. It (550) and my 210XST cab are for sale. In the 3 weeks I couldn't use them I found that I really didn't need anything more than a combo. My sound comes from my hands, my bass, a good DI and the PA - in that order. I have my combo to use as a monitor and for practice and small stand alone gigs.

I wish Eden luck in getting things turned around. They are great sounding amps and I hope all the CS and QC issues get resolved. Bottom line for any company - don't introduce products until they are ready, don't let your "parent" company force you into timelines you can't meet, an dbe sure you are adequately and competently staffed in all areas.

 

[Eublet]

svtb15

I really hope you get things together. There have been some communication issues between USM and Eden it seems, but I don't know that it's a BBB issue. I'm glad there are some thing going forward so that they can tidy their ship. The only reason I want Eden to recover from this is because I love their products, and I want a working 1205 myself, with the assurance that they have my back should it ever have problems.

I guess at this point I'm more talking about principles and such than I am Eden specifically. Automobile manufacturers have recalls all the time for things, and people don't go file BBB complaints. They just take their car in to their nearest dealer and let them fix it, sometimes quickly, sometimes not so quickly. It sucks, but stuff like this just happens sometimes, big or little, whatever.

If I'm defensive at all, it's just because I don't want an anti-Eden backlash to gain momentum to the point that it hinders their sales and ability to keep generating capital. That would hurt everyone.

Sorry if I came off sounding like an antagonist. The censorship comment just struck me funny. Personnaly, if I were the Eden forum moderator, I probably would have deleted lots of posts that didn't need to be there.

 

[Halftooth]

That won't do a darn thing. You guys need to understand what kind of cases the BBB gets involved with. You'd have to show the Eden willfully ignores customers, and is actively involved in intentionally providing bad products in order to take people's money. With the history and reputation Eden has, any such claim would be laughed at. The company had an issue with 2 new products out of many they've released. Now they're back logged getting them fixed b/c of a move and lack of support personel. The BBB won't be able to do jack about something like this. You'll be wasting your time, especially since Eden is working to fix the issue.

All this mouthing off is getting out of hand. I know some of you are upset, but Eden is trying. If anyone really wanted your money back before now, I'm sure they could have gotten it. But hope for that perfect amp has caused them to hanging on. That's not an issue for the BBB.

I disagree!

Whether or not the BBB will do anything specific with this case does not mean that something should not be filed. It will at the very least start a file with the parent company. If there happen to be more complaints filed within a year or so, you can bet the BBB will get involved!

Now let's just say that there have already been complaints filed with the parent company regarding matters similar to this one already, don't you think that the BBB is going to see a pattern forming and may investigate the situation more?

 

[el_Kabong]

Isn't that what a competitive market is all about? Those who excell prosper, those who flounder either lift their game or go out of business. I think that's the way it's supposed to work.

 

[USAJO]

I think the great thing is the more some people talk the clearer the picture actually becomes.

 

[The 0x]

So Eublet, how much are you really getting paid by Eden?

 

[Bassist30]

svtb15

I really hope you get things together. There have been some communication issues between USM and Eden it seems, but I don't know that it's a BBB issue. I'm glad there are some thing going forward so that they can tidy their ship. The only reason I want Eden to recover from this is because I love their products, and I want a working 1205 myself, with the assurance that they have my back should it ever have problems.

I guess at this point I'm more talking about principles and such than I am Eden specifically. Automobile manufacturers have recalls all the time for things, and people don't go file BBB complaints. They just take their car in to their nearest dealer and let them fix it, sometimes quickly, sometimes not so quickly. It sucks, but stuff like this just happens sometimes, big or little, whatever.

If I'm defensive at all, it's just because I don't want an anti-Eden backlash to gain momentum to the point that it hinders their sales and ability to keep generating capital. That would hurt everyone.

Sorry if I came off sounding like an antagonist. The censorship comment just struck me funny. Personnaly, if I were the Eden forum moderator, I probably would have deleted lots of posts that didn't need to be there.

I understand what you are saying and it would be sad if Eden where to get "point that it hinders their sales and ability to keep generating capital. That would hurt everyone." and I understand that "Automobile manufacturers have recalls all the time for things, and people don't go file BBB complaints."But we do have a lemon law with car manufacturers. I think we should also consider amps the same way. If it was a lemon which SVT had (and still has after months of communication with eden) and returned the amp when it was new (a few times) and still got back a faulty amp, i would say they should have sent him a new one right away and maybe- hopefully- this would not linger to be a problem. I feel that EDEN had an obligation to it's customers to furnish a new product if the one he had was faulty. Not say OK send it back and we will fix it. He - SVT - when he sent it back the first time he should of had a new amp, in the mail immediately. Now again I agree I never want to or help a company go down the drain. I like the EDEN products but good customer service is vital for a company to succeed. There is no question in that. If Eden hinders there sales its there own fault. As I said before i am so glad we have the internet. If a customer experiences what SVT did they can now inform others. Amazingly, what I have read, SVT is not the only one with faulty eden amps, yet he opened it up and others followed. Because of this I have bought another amp instead of the 800c. If SVT and others are having problems and not getting a replacement or a fixed amp for months i don't want anything to do with them. I have said before I owned an Eden and loved it. But until I hear that Eden puts there customers first than i want no part of them. I mean wouldn't it be nice to know a product you bought was from a company who believed in it so much that they would back it up to express there commitment. If I bought a new amp and I sent it back two or three times for repairs and did not get a replacement. What is that saying? There is an old saying "The customer is always right". You follow that and you will be successful. Well, along with having a good and sound product . But With the internet we now have a voice that travels around the world. Companies better follow that line or they will be as you said "hinder(s) their sales and ability to keep generating capital." Again I read your post and I understand you were not against as to what SVT was doing, but you have to understand when you spend alot of money and we are basically a paycheck away from being homeless (especially a full time musician) it is important that what we buy is in top working order. Its a buisness and it should be treated as such. If a company got faulty equipment how can they run properly. Same as a musician, its a buisness, if you can't get something right you go someplace else.

 

[The 0x]

That won't do a darn thing. You guys need to understand what kind of cases the BBB gets involved with. You'd have to show the Eden willfully ignores customers, and is actively involved in intentionally providing bad products in order to take people's money. With the history and reputation Eden has, any such claim would be laughed at. The company had an issue with 2 new products out of many they've released. Now they're back logged getting them fixed b/c of a move and lack of support personel. The BBB won't be able to do jack about something like this. You'll be wasting your time, especially since Eden is working to fix the issue.

All this mouthing off is getting out of hand. I know some of you are upset, but Eden is trying. If anyone really wanted your money back before now, I'm sure they could have gotten it. But hope for that perfect amp has caused them to hanging on. That's not an issue for the BBB.

Oh yeah, Eden's really "trying." It took them over a year to get it right with catphish. That's the mark of a lot of effort, eh? But hey, at least they tried.

 

[Smallmouth_Bass]

And all this information sharing about our experiences works both ways too. As we've heard horror stories, we've also heard good stuff when manufacturers and retailers go the extra mile to make sure things are right. Some people who may not have been considering a company's products might now be thinking that the superior service and great feedback is worth it to them.

 

[Vic]

... we've also heard good stuff when manufacturers and retailers go the extra mile to make sure things are right. Some people who may not have been considering a company's products might now be thinking that the superior service and great feedback is worth it to them.

Case in point... I just got a phone call TODAY... yeah, that's right SUNDAY... from another amp vendor I'm also working with regarding a service/update event. While I don't expect that kind of response from a vendor, I definitely think Eden, or maybe more accurately, USM with regard to Eden's products, can do a LOT better.

Personally, I don't consider this last year to apply to "today moving forward". After hearing Lane's diatribe at NAMM about everything, I'm willing to give them a fresh slate, and "start over, but with something to prove" as of the NAMM show.

So far, at least as I understand, svtb15 has (finally) gotten satisfaction, and I know that was a particularly aggravated situation, so I look at that as an indication they're making progress. Now we just need to see where things go from here.

P.S. I still own my Eden products and have no plans to change that.

 

[svtb15]

I just got in.. I am supposed to meet with the regional rep tomorrow... we are going to try and work it all out , including any differences that have arrised... I know it sounds nuts... But i want to see what he offers and what time line. .. After much pain in emailing, and this thread that i started.. I hate even reading the posts in this thread.. its depressing.. i cant read it in full .. i have to skim it... like a car wreck , but you have to rubber neck just to see what is going on...

i would still like my money back only becasue i am skeptical of support. . but i guess it depends on the store...
i am a sucker for when someone is treating me the way i we all like to be treated... not speacial.. just respectful... it all boils down to that.. respect..

I do not wish eden any harm at all.. in fact i wish well.. and want to see them succeed.. because that makes things better for all of us.
Lets see how it all goes tomorrow.

 

[bassthumpa]

Make sure you document the heck outta that meeting, take a recorder or a witness if you have to. Since you're looking at possible legal proceedings, you have to cover your rear.

Maybe I'm missing something, but what is there to meet about? They gave you a defective product, and they need to either give you something that works or give you your money back. That simple, right?

 

[Eublet]

For the last time, I PAY to play Eden products. They are the best.

Next, the biggest issue (not the only issue) with the 1205 was an INTENTIONALLY low gain on the front end. Most of the 1205's are working correctly, within spec it seems. (Of course, some of them arrived defective.) It's just that many people aren't happy with the gain. This is vastly different from having a lemon. Eden is modifying the gain to keep the users happy. But from everything I've heard about the 1205, people love the tone and features, they just want the gain fixed, and within a reasonable amount of time.

I've heard Eden say the 1205 was a heavily tested unit. Someone made the comment that Lane contridicted himself saying they didn't get to fully test it like they wanted to. I could be wrong here, but I remember that comment being made in reference to the gain modification, not the original release of the head itself. They were under pressure to get a gain mod spec'd and available to users, and it went through too quickly. Hence the need for another modification to make people happy.

Oh, and by the way, if you record a conversation with someone without making them aware, you can expect to get in trouble. If you let someone know you're recording their conversation, you can expect them not to say much. Either way, it doesn't do you much good in a legal proceeding. These are the kinds of things I'm referring to when I say SOME people here are just "mouthing off."

SVTB15 - Hang in there, and please report back here enough to let everyone know how it all pans out in the end. Good luck in getting this resolved!!!!

 

[Vic]

Next, the biggest issue (not the only issue) with the 1205 was an INTENTIONALLY low gain on the front end. Most of the 1205's are working correctly, within spec it seems. It's just that many people aren't happy with the gain.

I challenge the "within spec" comment.

I owned one of these, and at least up until the latest gain mod, the design was defective. Some could even argue it still is until the next mod is applied.

Even after the third gain mod, (with one more now on the way), WITH the turbo-boost engaged, I STILL had trouble pinging the clip LED, which is, according to the manual (and common sense) the proper way to set your gain... ping the led, and then back it off until it stops. Maximum gain without clipping. That's what you want... especially with tubes involved.

You're correct that they intentionally padded the primary gain stages (this was to support that (IMHO completely stupid) turbo-boost feature). However, they missed the mark by a LARGE margin. Then did it again, and even with the latest mod, still missed it by at least some. IMHO, when you can't set the amp up according to the printed manual (regardless of the common sense part), it doesn't meet "spec", and the design is flawed.

But from everything I've heard about the 1205, people love the tone and features, they just want the gain fixed, and within a reasonable amount of time.

True. But the "within a reasonable amount of time" is the issue here (as with the other complaints).

Oh, and by the way, if you record a conversation with someone without making them aware, you can expect to get in trouble.

This is VERY true, and while I wouldn't assume he would've done this, it's good to get it on the table just in case it wasn't known.