• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join freeLog in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Eden WT800C amp woes!! Anyone else having Problems?

I don't know that immediate replacements ares always possible when dealing with smaller companies that are making production runs just to fill new orders. It's not the same as choosing a head from Ampeg where they just mass produce these things and fill up every Guitarded Center on the planet with them. I'm not bashing Ampeg here, but that is what happens. The excitement over the 1205 was VERY high when it was introduced, and rightfully so. It has an amazing feature set. Eden filled a lot of orders for these. There's no telling how many happy people have these units that are never looking back.

I ordered a brand new Modulus Q6 that was damaged in shipping. No way Modulus could just replace it and deal with it themselves. I'm having to wait for them to build me a new one, and I am waiting patiently. I understand.

Honestly, I think these kinds of delays are inherrent in small, hi-end companies. As for the poor customer service, and mis-information, well that's not acceptable regardless of size. In fact, you expect better from a smaller company. It should be more personal. But we shouldn't expect Eden to have the means that an Ampeg or GK will have. They compete against each other in one sense, but in reality they aren't in the same league. One is big and bloated, making a couple of good products along with a bunch of average ones, while the other strives to be top dog at everything they do. One has financial resources to absorb big hits, the other has to manage those things as best as they can at ANY given moment. When Eden is doing R&D for a new product, you can bet it's much more of a strain on their bottom line than it is when Ampeg puts out another SVT with little that's new other than the face plate and name. There's a huge difference in the approach these companies can take here.
 
I totally feel bad for Kirk. It was not right. If you receive a bad product the company should send you a new one. Thats it. I mean thats the way to do business. With all respect for eden which has a fine product I believe with all the stories i am hearing they have come Accustomed to pouring salt on the wounds of there customers. Sounds harsh i know, But what I mean the customer should be "always right". You pay dollars for a product and if damaged the company should feel obligated to send a new one. Not repair the same amp 2x's (although they said they were sending a new amp,,,, But 3 months later...what is that). A new one at that. I was going to get the 800c. I had an eden which was destroyed and love there sound but what i am seeing I rather not, which is why i am waiting for a Thunderfunk to be at my door soon.:hyper: Part of the reasons you buy an amp is because of customer services. It may not be the reason of priority but it is still important. I can't nor do i want to waste time replacing new or old eqipment for repairs. An 800c is not cheap. It may be someones main amp. Now that person has to wait months for there amp? Again I like eden amps. In fact i like them alot. But I can't go through these problems nor do i have the time. As most of us.
 
Halftooth brought it up and Chef reiterated. Testing. I used to work in electronic repair. It was challenging, fun, and occaisionally a shocking (literally) experience :ninja: . This particular product should have been tested in the real world and problems rectified before being made available to buyers expecting it to work and repaired when it doesn't. I understand the pressure to roll out the new product for sale asap, but talk about a graphic picture of bringing it out too soon. Regardless of success with past models, this amp was not ready for prime time. I hope Eden is successful with 'damage control' and can get back to supplying good, reliable amplification.

Ken
 
Halftooth brought it up and Chef reiterated. Testing. I used to work in electronic repair. It was challenging, fun, and occaisionally a shocking (literally) experience :ninja: . This particular product should have been tested in the real world and problems rectified before being made available to buyers expecting it to work and repaired when it doesn't. I understand the pressure to roll out the new product for sale asap, but talk about a graphic picture of bringing it out too soon. Regardless of success with past models, this amp was not ready for prime time. I hope Eden is successful with 'damage control' and can get back to supplying good, reliable amplification.

Ken

Ken -

Funny you should talk about testing. When I spoke to Lane yesterday that is something he said they didn't do much of on the WT1205 (and would appear they didn't on the WT800c).

According to Lane corporate wanted the WT1205 out even though it had been thoroughly tested. I am not sure I buy that as I know how much control David Nordschow still has over design and release. But, that amp is apparently in it's THIRD fix.

I am not sure if they just got it wrong and continued to not get it right or if they did actually release it early before sufficient testing. I will say this though, whatever the problem was, it has cost them big and probably will so for a while.

A good piece of their revenue is from backline companies. If those companie sexperience these kinds of delays in service and repair they will buy other gear they dem more reliable.

It takes a long time to build a solid reputation, just moments to destroy it and even longer to build it back up. I hope can recover.
 
Halftooth brought it up and Chef reiterated. Testing. I used to work in electronic repair. It was challenging, fun, and occaisionally a shocking (literally) experience :ninja: . This particular product should have been tested in the real world and problems rectified before being made available to buyers expecting it to work and repaired when it doesn't. I understand the pressure to roll out the new product for sale asap, but talk about a graphic picture of bringing it out too soon. Regardless of success with past models, this amp was not ready for prime time. I hope Eden is successful with 'damage control' and can get back to supplying good, reliable amplification.

Ken

I thought more people were going to touch on my testing post, but my thoughts, as it applies to Eden and new product developement, is that people had already thought highly of just about every product that Eden had out. I understand the need to constantly develope to continue growing as a company, but introducing new products just to introduce them is sort of irresponsible, IMO, especially if the new ones are rolling out with problems. I'm pretty sure that I would not have thought any less of Eden had they not introduced the 1205 or 800C when they did, but rather, held back, and released the amps free of issues a little while later.

Back to my fitness equipment example, nobody remembers who introduced a certain piece of equipment first, but what they do remember is who has continually prduced the most functional equipment that is reliable and free from defects, and ultimately those customers come back to those companies for their next purchase. The ones that release products with great features first, but their product isn't as reliable as they hoped, will never come back to that company.

I know that Eden isn't trying to do all of this. It's really unfortunate that things have turned out the way they have. I just hope that they personally go out of their way to make all the repairs right and do whatever it takes to not let this situation get way out of control.
 
Ken -

Funny you should talk about testing. When I spoke to Lane yesterday that is something he said they didn't do much of on the WT1205 (and would appear they didn't on the WT800c).

According to Lane corporate wanted the WT1205 out even though it had been thoroughly tested. I am not sure I buy that as I know how much control David Nordschow still has over design and release. But, that amp is apparently in it's THIRD fix.

I am not sure if they just got it wrong and continued to not get it right or if they did actually release it early before sufficient testing. I will say this though, whatever the problem was, it has cost them big and probably will so for a while.

A good piece of their revenue is from backline companies. If those companie sexperience these kinds of delays in service and repair they will buy other gear they dem more reliable.

It takes a long time to build a solid reputation, just moments to destroy it and even longer to build it back up. I hope can recover.

When I was waiting for my 1205 (first run), which had delay ater delay (originally to be delivered in March - I got my faulty unit in November), he said MULTIPLE TIMES that this was 'the most tested product in our company's history', and I quote. You can read it verbatim on the multiple threads on their forum.

When I got mine, the rack ears didn't even fit, amongst a myriad of other problems; how 'tested' is that?

I knew it was bs; this seemingly proves it.

C.
 
Interesting how so many post add to the notion that eden was "ill-prepared" when they sold there 1205 and 800 c to the public. What is also interesting is that I have read post from the older Bass alt days that many eden owner were having problems with there amps. I am not saying other companies have not sold faulty equipment. I was just remembering others would complain about the eden amps needing repairs. Now i had one and it gave me minimal problems. But what i do like is that now we have the internet. We can now inform, evaluate, review, etc equipment so others can gather information about it. This is great. Companies now can not screw the customer. This is new and they have to get on the band wagon so to speak and satisfy the customer or else, you will have post such as this. I mean it made me not buy the amp. You can say we hope they get it together but in my eye's if they don't they will be out of business faster than say they would be 10 years ago. The internet is a powerful organization. And what blows me away is that there is really no one company manageing it. Like there is not some guy saying i am the CEO of the internet (well maybe there is and he forgot to take his medication :rollno: ). But again as of recent we have become a powerful organization and we can now inform people accross the world about certain companies and what they are doing. Or not doing..........
I like that. Finally companies have to stay on the ball if they want to be successful. Now if Eden wants to tell someone not to write post on the internet, which they did, they have to know the problems they will have, if it's continued. All I can say keep them comin'. It's vital to all customers. I bought the Thunderfunk instead of the eden because of it.
 
I don't know that immediate replacements ares always possible when dealing with smaller companies that are making production runs just to fill new orders. It's not the same as choosing a head from Ampeg where they just mass produce these things and fill up every Guitarded Center on the planet with them. I'm not bashing Ampeg here, but that is what happens. The excitement over the 1205 was VERY high when it was introduced, and rightfully so. It has an amazing feature set. Eden filled a lot of orders for these. There's no telling how many happy people have these units that are never looking back.

I ordered a brand new Modulus Q6 that was damaged in shipping. No way Modulus could just replace it and deal with it themselves. I'm having to wait for them to build me a new one, and I am waiting patiently. I understand.

Honestly, I think these kinds of delays are inherrent in small, hi-end companies. As for the poor customer service, and mis-information, well that's not acceptable regardless of size. In fact, you expect better from a smaller company. It should be more personal. But we shouldn't expect Eden to have the means that an Ampeg or GK will have. They compete against each other in one sense, but in reality they aren't in the same league. One is big and bloated, making a couple of good products along with a bunch of average ones, while the other strives to be top dog at everything they do. One has financial resources to absorb big hits, the other has to manage those things as best as they can at ANY given moment. When Eden is doing R&D for a new product, you can bet it's much more of a strain on their bottom line than it is when Ampeg puts out another SVT with little that's new other than the face plate and name. There's a huge difference in the approach these companies can take here.

I wouldn't call Eden "small hi-end." They have the Pro line, the Nemesis line, and now the Silver Series. Sounds almost like SWR with the LA, WorkingMan/Pro, and Pro series. No other "small hi-end" company has THREE distinct levels.

Combine that with the fact that Eden has been behaving like this for over a year now, I think this may be their death knell. I think David should take a page out of Steve Rabe's book, and get out of there now, and start his own smaller company. The company & its problems are obviously too big for him to handle, now. :scowl:
 
Mike -
I have never played through any Eden product. I have to take your and everyone else's word about their sonic sweetness. I don't manufacture amplifiers either. If I did, I would be sending evaluation units to someone like you, one of my endorsers. This is what I was referring to as a real-world test in my earlier post. If/when the unit fails, you send it back to me for re-engineering. The public never knows how many times it took us to achieve a workable design, but we maintain our rep as kit a working musician can rely on... I wish Eden success in finding competent techs to fix the hardware and the grace to behave calmly in their hopefully temporary tempest.

Ken
 
I wouldn't call Eden "small hi-end." They have the Pro line, the Nemesis line, and now the Silver Series. Sounds almost like SWR with the LA, WorkingMan/Pro, and Pro series. No other "small hi-end" company has THREE distinct levels.

Combine that with the fact that Eden has been behaving like this for over a year now, I think this may be their death knell. I think David should take a page out of Steve Rabe's book, and get out of there now, and start his own smaller company. The company & its problems are obviously too big for him to handle, now. :scowl:
No doubt, they're hoping to expand in the market. But their silver series line is backed with features, and much more pricey than your normal entry level combos. The Nemesis line is right up there with Ampeg, GK, and the other mass-market manufacturers, both in terms of price and features, although they only have two heads in that line. And Eden quality has been above that of SWR for a long time, since Rabe left for sure.

I don't think it's gotten to big for David to handle, and that's a pretty big assumption you've made in stating that. This seems more like growing pains to me...completely fixable.
 
Ken, if you want to audition a wt800b, or Navigator, pm me sometime...


Mike -
I have never played through any Eden product. I have to take your and everyone else's word about their sonic sweetness. I don't manufacture amplifiers either. If I did, I would be sending evaluation units to someone like you, one of my endorsers. This is what I was referring to as a real-world test in my earlier post. If/when the unit fails, you send it back to me for re-engineering. The public never knows how many times it took us to achieve a workable design, but we maintain our rep as kit a working musician can rely on... I wish Eden success in finding competent techs to fix the hardware and the grace to behave calmly in their hopefully temporary tempest.

Ken
 
I went to the eden forum, and they deleted the post about the wt800c problem.. it was the same as here,, stating the problem and asking others if they had a similar problem so we could try to get them working properly..
mmmmmmm got to love censorship these days....
And recent story changes and slanderous remarks and lible email have been made about me by an eden official to my business aquaintences.. the person in charge over there is is making this very ugly. I was told to make a BBB complaint towards USM and i will on monday.

At first repair i wanted a new amp. They would not answer.
At Second repair I asked for a new amp. They said no.
Now 3rd time to repair the same problem they are slandering me. and finally said they will send a new amp in a few weeks time..
At this point I want my money back.. they said they have no control over that...it has been almost 3 months.....the store wont do it. so im stuck with an amp that is defective and having a nightmare of any future contact with their CS...

if anyone wants an amp recomendation, PM me, i will be glad to offer assistance on what brand to purchase..
 
mmmmmmm got to love censorship these days
This is total BS. Lots of posts are still there about the wt800c problem. That one post was deleted because it contain incendiary comments and posts toward Eden, who owns the forum might I add. That's not censorship. It's a private forum, owned and operated by the manufacturer, so they can delete anything they want.
 
Definitely file a complaint with the BBB. This is ridiculous.
That won't do a darn thing. You guys need to understand what kind of cases the BBB gets involved with. You'd have to show the Eden willfully ignores customers, and is actively involved in intentionally providing bad products in order to take people's money. With the history and reputation Eden has, any such claim would be laughed at. The company had an issue with 2 new products out of many they've released. Now they're back logged getting them fixed b/c of a move and lack of support personel. The BBB won't be able to do jack about something like this. You'll be wasting your time, especially since Eden is working to fix the issue.

All this mouthing off is getting out of hand. I know some of you are upset, but Eden is trying. If anyone really wanted your money back before now, I'm sure they could have gotten it. But hope for that perfect amp has caused them to hanging on. That's not an issue for the BBB.
 
That won't do a darn thing. You guys need to understand what kind of cases the BBB gets involved with. You'd have to show the Eden willfully ignores customers, and is actively involved in intentionally providing bad products in order to take people's money. With the history and reputation Eden has, any such claim would be laughed at. The company had an issue with 2 new products out of many they've released. Now they're back logged getting them fixed b/c of a move and lack of support personel. The BBB won't be able to do jack about something like this. You'll be wasting your time, especially since Eden is working to fix the issue.

All this mouthing off is getting out of hand. I know some of you are upset, but Eden is trying. If anyone really wanted your money back before now, I'm sure they could have gotten it. But hope for that perfect amp has caused them to hanging on. That's not an issue for the BBB.

I believe he's asked for a new amp OR his money back more than once. So, not sure why you're so sure, because it sure hasn't happened yet.