Eden WT800C amp woes!! Anyone else having Problems?

[Vinny D]

Sorry I missed what was said, I was too busy kissing up to Lane.

 

[svtb15]

i know you have a great sense of humor Vinny.. were still brothers in bass...

 

[Bassflute]

Okay, not trying to argue, really, but I'm very familiar with the items you're talking about. Those are studio quality preamps made for recording. They cost thousands of dollars alone, much more than most heads, and some of the models are several times as expensive as any bass head on the market...just for a preamp. Do you really think that kind of expense would be justified in a bass head?

That's true as it sits now, but... I can't help but think that if Ampeg, or Genz-Benz, or Kaman, or whoever, threw their industrial and manufacturing might into an amp (preamp) that was of the quality of the Universal Audio, for instance, they could get the price down big time. The current cost of those things is because they are made by hand in very small quantities. If the big boys did it overseas, using the same ultra-high quality components and with some care, we could have a rig that sounds as great as the UA does (or Avalon, or Millenia) at a fraction of the cost. Instead, the cost goes into a million shiny buttons, knobs, twenty-two flashing lights that change colour, cheezy switches that break, all made with cheap components, instead of what we really need, some high quality stuff. Everytime they cheapen by $.05 out on one little resistor or op amp, it all cheapens the sound, which is why we get mediocre sounding gear with a million buttons and knobs. That's why I am so enamoured with these high-end pres; you DON'T NEED a million bands of eq because they sound so good flat. The Millenia, however, does come with a lot of eq.

Still, you're using the word quality in a way I don't understand. How is the GBE's input section of less quality than any other head out there? What about the Aguilar makes you say it is of higher quality? Better tone? I'm really just trying to understand why you think that. Did you hear something in the unput section that didn't sound right?

On the other hand, I'm wondering if you're using the word "quality" to refer to your prefence in the way something sounds.

See above. Transistors, resistors, op amps, jacks, switches - they all make a difference. Most detract from the sound, unless you are using really great components.

IHMO, of course.

Cameron

 

[svtb15]

That's true as it sits now, but... I can't help but think that if Ampeg, or Genz-Benz, or Kaman, or whoever, threw their industrial and manufacturing might into an amp (preamp) that was of the quality of the Universal Audio, for instance, they could get the price down big time. The current cost of those things is because they are made by hand in very small quantities. If the big boys did it overseas, using the same ultra-high quality components and with some care, we could have a rig that sounds as great as the UA does (or Avalon, or Millenia) at a fraction of the cost. Instead, the cost goes into a million shiny buttons, knobs, twenty-two flashing lights that change colour, cheezy switches that break, all made with cheap components, instead of what we really need, some high quality stuff. Everytime they cheapen by $.05 out on one little resistor or op amp, it all cheapens the sound, which is why we get mediocre sounding gear with a million buttons and knobs. That's why I am so enamoured with these high-end pres; you DON'T NEED a million bands of eq because they sound so good flat. The Millenia, however, does come with a lot of eq.




See above. Transistors, resistors, op amps, jacks, switches - they all make a difference. Most detract from the sound, unless you are using really great components.

IHMO, of course.

Cameron

I think good sound is somewhat subjective... depends on the person.. i was wanting to ask if you are talking from AB tests and experince with each piece that you are describing, or a spec sheet... just wondering.
i had a U5 Avalon. very nice.. the Neve mic pre sounded better to me.. but thats subjective...
Most head type amps may use resistors that are maybe .01 cents each.. where millenia may use high priced resitors at .15 cents each... and i have never seen a resistor that expensine unless it was a JAN S type... so if there were 100 resitors in that millenia that would be $15.00.. does that warrent an extra $2000.
Of course not.
I think circuit design may have as much to do with sound and nise as the actual components used to some extent..

 

[Bassflute]

I think good sound is somewhat subjective... depends on the person.. i was wanting to ask if you are talking from AB tests and experince with each piece that you are describing, or a spec sheet... just wondering.
i had a U5 Avalon. very nice.. the Neve mic pre sounded better to me.. but thats subjective...

I have directly A/B'd the following:

1) The Genz-Benz 1220 vs the Eden WT800B into my Bergantinos.

2) the Millenia 737sp and the Avalon SST (into a Yorkville poweramp) vs the Eden and my Bergantinos.

3) the Eden vs the Universal Audio LA 610 with a Yorkville poweramp into the Bergantinos.

Same bass on all of them - MTD 635-24 fretless.

All of the pre-amps sounded better than the bass amps, some incredibly so, and that was with a fairly cheezy (but incredibly heavy and powerful) poweramp. The Avalon was lush, rich, and warm, as was the UA, which had both a gorgeous tube compressor, and natural tube compression in the pre-amp tubes; the Millenia, however, was just killin', and with a TON of EQ and tube/SS possibilites. Incredible; clean, fast, bright, deep, punchy, just freaking awesome; you could get the sound of pretty much anything with that. The Eden sounded like a telephone next to that rig, and I liked it (the Eden) better than the Genz-Benz.

Haven't gigged with any of them, unfortunately. But soon.

My dream rig, soon to be - 2 Bergantino IP112's with HT 112 extensions, a Millenia pre (if I can swing the cash) and my current Lexicon MPX 1 to convert it all to stereo, and my MTD; 1,000 watts per channel of stereo bass heaven that will fit into the trunk of my car and won't break my back (just my bank account).

Thanks,
Cameron

 

[svtb15]

I have directly A/B'd the following:

1) The Genz-Benz 1220 vs the Eden WT800B into my Bergantinos.

2) the Millenia 737sp and the Avalon SST (into a Yorkville poweramp) vs the Eden and my Bergantinos.

3) the Eden vs the Universal Audio LA 610 with a Yorkville poweramp into the Bergantinos.

Same bass on all of them - MTD 635-24 fretless.

All of the pre-amps sounded better than the bass amps, some incredibly so, and that was with a fairly cheezy (but incredibly heavy and powerful) poweramp. The Avalon was lush, rich, and warm, as was the UA, which had both a gorgeous tube compressor, and natural tube compression in the pre-amp tubes; the Millenia, however, was just killin', and with a TON of EQ and tube/SS possibilites. Incredible; clean, fast, bright, deep, punchy, just freaking awesome; you could get the sound of pretty much anything with that. The Eden sounded like a telephone next to that rig, and I liked it (the Eden) better than the Genz-Benz.

Haven't gigged with any of them, unfortunately. But soon.

My dream rig, soon to be - 2 Bergantino IP112's with HT 112 extensions, a Millenia pre (if I can swing the cash) and my current Lexicon MPX 1 to convert it all to stereo, and my MTD; 1,000 watts per channel of stereo bass heaven that will fit into the trunk of my car and won't break my back (just my bank account).

Thanks,
Cameron

Cool. I see what you are saying.. I guess to each his own.
I have to tell you that i find it very suprizing that you found the eden sounding like a telephone but it sounding better to you than a genz. .I see it the other way.. that the Genz is far quicker fuller and deeper that the eden . and the GB has more headroom.
Where the edens that i have played hissed like a snake with flat eq the genz is almost silent with that same flat eq setting..
But that just proves my point that sound is subjective..
What type of gigs do you do with a stereo rig? that can be cool.

 

[Eublet]

Different strokes I guess. I've played through Avalons and UA's in the studio, where the fit wonderfully. I've also played through them live using in-ears, and they work wonderfully. I've also played through them using power amps to push bass cabs, and thought they were ho-hum. In the amplified world along with cabinets, I just don't think you need all that to get a good sound. Even recording live, a DI off of a great amp does a good job. I'd rather have an Eden Navigator than ANY preamp any day of the week. If GB ever comes out with a tube/fet preamp with all the tonal options, I'll probably choose it over the Eden. There's just a huge difference between studio and live, and the electronics required to do each.

Like you say though, all my opinion, and I respect that yours is different.

 

[Bassflute]

Cool. I see what you are saying.. I guess to each his own.
I have to tell you that i find it very suprizing that you found the eden sounding like a telephone but it sounding better to you than a genz. .I see it the other way.. that the Genz is far quicker fuller and deeper that the eden .
Where the edens that i have played hissed like a snake with flat eq the genz is almost silent with that same flat eq setting..
But that just proves my point that sound is subjective..

I HATE that! But my Eden's nice and quiet through the Bergantinos.

The hissing must be from the ultra-cheezy tweeters in whatever cabs they were using.

And BTW - it's nice to have a discussion that doesn't turn into a verbal brawl, with name calling and swearing - bass road rage. To each his own; I don't mind if you like what you like. And I hope you don't mind if I have a contrary opinion. Some of my favorite bass players play amps and basses that I hate; see - Rocco!

Pre basses and Ampegs - Yuch! But Rocco - yeah, man!!!!

Thanks,
Cameron

 

[svtb15]

I used an Avalon in an inear system and other high end DI's...and hated it.. It was too pristine for me,, inears i prefer to have a micd amp in the inears.. but second best is some sort of emulation... The Pod is good for inears.. i would not send it to the house, but it gets rid of that too clean top of a bass going directly to your ears without speaker sound to give it charater.. i realy dont care if it is a 10 , 12, 15 or 18.. just as long as i can hear a speaker in my ears and not that DI sound.. it sound good in a studio but there it is going through a pair of speakers and a few feet of air before it hits your ears...

yes i agree, studio and live rigs are two diffent animals in my opinion.

Different strokes I guess. I've played through Avalons and UA's in the studio, where the fit wonderfully. I've also played through them live using in-ears, and they work wonderfully. I've also played through them using power amps to push bass cabs, and thought they were ho-hum. In the amplified world along with cabinets, I just don't think you need all that to get a good sound. Even recording live, a DI off of a great amp does a good job. I'd rather have an Eden Navigator than ANY preamp any day of the week. If GB ever comes out with a tube/fet preamp with all the tonal options, I'll probably choose it over the Eden. There's just a huge difference between studio and live, and the electronics required to do each.

Like you say though, all my opinion, and I respect that yours is different.

 

[svtb15]

Pre basses and Ampegs - Yuch! But Rocco - yeah, man!!!!

Thanks,
Cameron

Yeah but he can make a washtub bass with a rubberband for a string sound good.

 

[svtb15]

whats weird is that even my carvin b1500 that i had before i sold it was quieter with less hiss than the eden wt550 and wt800c that i had breifly..
My thunderfunk is real quiet as well as the gbe1200.. i run my tweets just barely cracked on. so much so that you have to put your ear near them to see if they are on.. i like to hear a smoother transition from speaker to tweet and not the tweeter saying ( hey look at me.. im a tweeter and i can spit out some highs.. .. look ill prove it).. I think i am going to start looking at accugrooves soon..

I HATE that! But my Eden's nice and quiet through the Bergantinos.

The hissing must be from the ultra-cheezy tweeters in whatever cabs they were using.

And BTW - it's nice to have a discussion that doesn't turn into a verbal brawl, with name calling and swearing - bass road rage. To each his own; I don't mind if you like what you like. And I hope you don't mind if I have a contrary opinion. Some of my favorite bass players play amps and basses that I hate; see - Rocco!

Pre basses and Ampegs - Yuch! But Rocco - yeah, man!!!!

Thanks,
Cameron

 

[svtb15]

i hope i worded it right.. i wanted to say that the Carvin was quieter than the edens that i played. the edens were hissing while the carvin was silent... infact you could alomst turn the carvin treble up to full.. if you di that with the eden .. forget it.. it would sound like a steam kettle.

 

[LowBSix]

What's up with the Eden DI output that's distorting so much???

 

[gec78221]

Any news on the eden troubles...

 

[Bassflute]

Any news on the eden troubles...

pretty quiet now. I think they've seriously lost market share, but still have enough to remain arrogant.

They fired (or 'let go of') David Nordschow.

Cheers,
Cameron

 

[gec78221]

pretty quiet now. I think they've seriously lost market share, but still have enough to remain arrogant.

They fired (or 'let go of') David Nordschow.

Cheers,
Cameron

My dad's thinking about picking up A Wt800. Should I tell him to look elsewhere. He likes the Eden 550 but wants more power. What would you reccomend.

 

[matt11]

My dad's is thinking of picking up A Wt800. Should I tell him to look elsewhere. He likes the Eden 550 but wants more power. What would you reccomend.

But first: I have a 2005 wt550 and I've used backline wt800s--never had a problem, no hiss, no breakdowns. Nice, rich sounding heads. I can't really see why you'd need more thanthe wt550's 500 watts at 4ohms (with the right cab/s, that's plenty of power). I recently picked up a second-hand db750 though, and if you want more power and are looking for a clean but fat rock tone, the Aggie's 750 watts at 4ohms is monstrous. I got mine, in immaculate condition, for $1400.00 Canadian.

 

[smtudor]

I have a WT800B, no complaints here.

I understand Eden has addressed the issues with the early C amps by now, so if your dad gets a new one, he should be okay. If he's worried, I'd say the B version is a safe (and less expensive) alternative.

 

[svtb15]

Now that wasn't so hard now was it.. BUt they got what they deserved.

Wow i thought this thread was gone, Its been a while...
Seriously though I always loved the sound of the Eden gear,, But pn top of all the CS issues hey Let David N,, the top dog designer go...
The WT550 is nice sounding amp with no issues from what i see...
There are many nice amps out there , from some real light stuff like the Markbass and Genz Benz Shuttle. I like the Genz Gear for the tuby sort of vibe. Folks have said they can get the Eden vibe with the Genz GBE750 or GBE1200 series amps.

I think they've seriously lost market share, but still have enough to remain arrogant.



Cheers,
Cameron

 

[gec78221]

But first: I have a 2005 wt550 and I've used backline wt800s--never had a problem, no hiss, no breakdowns. Nice, rich sounding heads. I can't really see why you'd need more thanthe wt550's 500 watts at 4ohms (with the right cab/s, that's plenty of power). I recently picked up a second-hand db750 though, and if you want more power and are looking for a clean but fat rock tone, the Aggie's 750 watts at 4ohms is monstrous. I got mine, in immaculate condition, for $1400.00 Canadian.

Frist off, I'm not A bass player, HELP. I'm Just doing the research for him(He's 62). He tried an Aggie750, no dice. We tried the Eden550 & the GB600. He liked the Eden550. We also compared the GB600 to the GB750. The 750 to us was cleaner & bigger sounding. His thinking is more watts equals a bigger & clear sound.... Any thoughts...THANKS...