Effects loop (I understand literally no ones explanation)

[BassBrass]

Ive used a compressor/limiter in the effects loop, that works nice getting max volume out of an underpowered amp without breaking speakers, but these days a lot of amps have a limiter built in. Effects into the input.

 

[DJ Bebop]

The Send/Return section in an amplifier is located between the Preamp and PowerAmp sections. For optimal results, it's generally recommended to position time-based effects such as Chorus, Delay, and Reverb after the Preamp using the Send/Return connections. On the other hand, gain-based effects, envelopes, octavers, etc., are typically placed in front of the Preamp. While there's flexibility, arranging effects in this manner often yields better outcomes. The placement of the Compressor is a choice, but placing it in front of the Preamp may produce improved results. To set up your effects chain, I suggest you this layout as a starting point: Instrument > Tuner > Compressor > Amplifier Input (preamp) > SEND to Chorus Input, and connect Chorus’ Output to the amp's RETURN.

This works provided the pedals in the send/return loop work on line level vs instrument level

If not, a lot of volume loss should be excepted.

 

[vvvmmm]

A guitarist trick is to put a pad in the effect loop so you can crank the pre-amp gain for tone but control the volume going into the power amp section.

I've never done it on a bass amp, but I have tried a delay in a guitar amp loop - too much effort.

Was I gonna do the effects loop thing, I think I'd buy or make a snake.

 

[40Hz]

27718340[/URL], member: 143195"]Nope, not for me. I'm quite picky about my tone, but 4 cables is too much for me.

The only reason to get involved with things like wet/dry, wet/dry/wet, or four cable signal paths is because you are picky about your tone.

That said, if the traditional method of running all your effects into the front of your amp is already giving you everything you want in terms of tone, then there’s no reason to add extra complexity to your rig.

Like the saying goes: If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.

 

[40Hz]

A guitarist trick is to put a pad in the effect loop so you can crank the pre-amp gain for tone but control the volume going into the power amp section.

Isn’t that what the existing Gain and Volume knobs on an amp already do?

 

[EdO.]

So OK, dumb question time. So if I want to run something like a Stomp through a practice amp and bypass the tone controls on the amp (making the practice rig basically nothing more than a powered speaker) that's the correct way to do that?

 

[Phe]

So OK, dumb question time. So if I want to run something like a Stomp through a practice amp and bypass the tone controls on the amp (making the practice rig basically nothing more than a powered speaker) that's the correct way to do that?

In that case you'd want to plug straight into the Return.

 

[PJsaure]

Just replace "send" by "preamp output" and "return" by "power amp input", and consider your preamp just as another pedal (knowing that the preamp output is probably much hotter than a typical pedal). The whole thing made much more sense to me when I started thinking about it this way. To be fair, I got it with send/return, but it involved more brain gymnastics when thinking about it in this term.
Just label everything with "X output" and "X input". Much more intuitive to follow the signal path.
As others have said though, the main point on the effects loop of an amp is if you are running relatively heavy distortion in the preamp. But by all means, go ahead and experiment. Just plug outputs into inputs.

 

[paskisti]

If I remember correctly, typical Marshall guitar tube amp does not have true line level effects loop. It can be basically used with pedals in a good result. Some amps have also level adjustment to make it suitable with pedals. Same is not applicable with many bass amps.

 

[vvvmmm]

Isn’t that what the existing Gain and Volume knobs on an amp already do?

Some amps - like the Hot Rod Deluxe - just do not sound good to some users when cranking the gain and barely using the power section. So if you want to have the gain dimed but also have the power tubes more involved, a pad in the loop can help with that.

A quick and dirty example to show the concept:
gain 100% ---> master 5%
vs.
gain 100% --> pad --> master 50%

 

[40Hz]

Some amps - like the Hot Rod Deluxe - just do not sound good to some users when cranking the gain and barely using the power section. So if you want to have the gain dimed but also have the power tubes more involved, a pad in the loop can help with that.

A quick and dirty example to show the concept:
gain 100% ---> master 5%
vs.
gain 100% --> pad --> master 50%

Ok. But my understanding is that the volume control on the power amp stage is a passive attenuator in a Fender amp and doesn’t control a gain circuit. So it’s performing the same function as inserting an attenuator in the effects loop. The two attenuators (or pads if you prefer) probably have different values and tapers which might account for some perceived difference in the amp’s sound at different settings. But IIUC how Fender amps work, a pad in the loop is doing the same thing electronically as the master volume control.

 

[vvvmmm]

"... the volume control on the power amp stage is a passive attenuator in a Fender amp and doesn’t control a gain circuit. So it’s performing the same function as inserting an attenuator in the effects loop. "

That makes no sense to me re what is my point, but I am not an expert, only a long time user.

And I have a HRDX, BTW, and the distorting circuit/channel sux (but it really is a great "pedal platform").

Lemme try again - the HRDX has two parts, for this shite simplification :
a. the pre
b. the power stage
c. the pad

If you crank the pre into the power stage, you have to greatly reduce the output of the latter to control the total volume.

Using fake numbers, just for example:
a. gain 50% + b. master 50%
=
a. gain 75% vs. b. master 25%

With the pad (again using fake #'s for example), you might get:
a. gain 50% + b. master 50%
=
a. gain 75% + b. master 25%
=
a. gain 75% - c. pad 25% + b. master 50%

None of that is accurate, just meant to be illustrative.

IOW, if you pad the cranked gain, you can turn up the master.

 

[PJsaure]

Yes, but the master volume on typical Fender and Fender derived amps (and I would say even probably most tube amps) is controlling what is feeding into the power amp section, not what is coming out of it.
When turning the master down, you do not reduce the volume of the (potentially overdriven) power tubes output, but rather you reduce the signal which is going into them, hence doing the same thing as putting a pad in the effects loop.
Controlling a line level signal is much easier (can be done with a simple standard dual pot, or even a single pot and very simple circuitry) than controlling the much more powerful signal coming out of a power amp section, so I believe this is why it’s designed that way. If you want to drive a power amp section hard and not have too much volume, you either have to reduce the amp power source voltage or use an attenuator between the amp and the cab.

 

[WillyW]

I have a few amps now with an effects loop, but I have still never used it.

it’s easier to use multiple amps, and still less cords…

 

[vvvmmm]

I'll get even simpler:

Put the master at 50%.

Now hit it with the pre at 100%.

Now hit it with the pre at 100% but a pad inbetween the pre and the master.

The latter is quieter.

 

[TOOL460002]

The Send/Return section in an amplifier is located between the Preamp and PowerAmp sections. For optimal results, it's generally recommended to position time-based effects such as Chorus, Delay, and Reverb after the Preamp using the Send/Return connections. On the other hand, gain-based effects, envelopes, octavers, etc., are typically placed in front of the Preamp. While there's flexibility, arranging effects in this manner often yields better outcomes. The placement of the Compressor is a choice, but placing it in front of the Preamp may produce improved results. To set up your effects chain, I suggest you this layout as a starting point: Instrument > Tuner > Compressor > Amplifier Input (preamp) > SEND to Chorus Input, and connect Chorus’ Output to the amp's RETURN.

My first thought is that using a send/return is a pretty good argument to go with racking time-based effects.

 

[vvvmmm]

Except for the weight/ergonomics, and the typically higher expense.

 

[40Hz]

27722862[/URL], member: 311747"]Yes, but the master volume on typical Fender and Fender derived amps (and I would say even probably most tube amps) is controlling what is feeding into the power amp section, not what is coming out of it.

^This!

That is my understanding too. The volume of the signal coming out of a power amp is controlled by the level of its input signal. The power amp itself is a fixed gain device. Fancy way of saying it’s permanently dimed. The only effective way to change its total gain is by switching its gain stages (i.e. its power tubes) in or out. Which is how those “low power” toggle switches on many tube amps accomplish it. They electrically pull a given number of tubes out of the circuit.

It’s also why it’s possible to blow a speaker or have your amp thermal off even on a low volume setting if there’s too much clipping on your input signal courtesy of your favorite dirt box. Because the full wattage of your power amp stage is constant and always available. So if you sufficiently overload your input signal, your power amp will provide its full wattage to further boosting whatever signal it gets. Sometimes with catastrophic results

 

[PJsaure]

I'll get even simpler:

Put the master at 50%.

Now hit it with the pre at 100%.

Now hit it with the pre at 100% but a pad inbetween the pre and the master.

The latter is quieter.

Yes. But I don’t get the point of putting a pad between the pre and power amp when you can simply turn down the master and achieve the exact same output.
It sounds to me like you are implying there is some benefit to having the master set higher at any given output volume. What would that benefit be?

 

[Jake555]

I'd recommend forgetting about the whole loop and placing stuff between the bass and amp input.

Eh I’m trying to clean it up a bit