Effects loop (I understand literally no ones explanation)

[vvvmmm]

Yes. But I don’t get the point of putting a pad between the pre and power amp when you can simply turn down the master and achieve the exact same output.
It sounds to me like you are implying there is some benefit to having the master set higher at any given output volume. What would that benefit be?

Not implying, sir, I'm testifying!

Try it - the HRDX is a good example.

My experience is that the pre at 25% going into the master at 100% is quieter than the pre at 100% going into the master at 100%.

And the pre at 100% sounds different than the pre at 25%.

And that extra pad directly after the dimed pre and before the dimed master volume sounds different than adjusting the output volume by lowering the master with its knob - mebbe it's because of headroom, eq, or just adjustability?

Or mebbe I'm just a knob.

 

[PJsaure]

Yes sure, gain/master set 100/25 vs 25/100 won’t sound the same, I think we all agree on that.
I’m not familiar with this particular amp myself (HRDX stands for Hot Rod Deluxe, right?), so I can’t say for sure.
From what I understand in the schematic I found online, the master is actually before the effects loop. So whichever way you adjust the level that is hitting the poweramp should result in the same result. But… The master will have an impact on the signal that is sent to your effects loop. So maybe the difference you are hearing comes from that? Does that match what you are experiencing? The higher you set the master, the harder you drive your effects loop. Unless I misread the schematic, which is entirely possible.

 

[40Hz]

27730251[/URL], member: 178900"]Eh I’m trying to clean it up a bit

FWIW about the only pedals I found that worked well in the effects loop (for me) were time based effects such as delay, reverb, and some modulation pedals, or (on one amp I own) a HPF. Everything else sounded better in front of the amp. But everybody’s musical goals and rig are different so YMMV.

However, if you are using effects and have two amps to work with, it might be worthwhile to split your signal and explore using both amps in a wet/dry setup.

Fast forward the video below to the 3:35 mark for a really good example of the difference in sound you get when you do this with a vibrato pedal.

 

[vvvmmm]

Does that match what you are experiencing?

As mentioned, I only tried it, thought it was too much effort. And I only tried it on the HRDX because, TBH, the distortion channel is not my fave and I can do better with dirt pedals in front.

That said, that amp is famously approached that way if ya duck-duck-go for it, and there are even pads for sale on the 'verb and the Ebog that cite to that purpose - search, "volume attenuator".

Finally, pretty sure the loop is before the master volume, by definition.

"Amp designers have since combated this tonal malady by creating a way to insert effects after the amp’s overdriven preamp, but before the higher-headroom power section. This invention allowed players to run their amps as hot as they like, while still retaining their time-based effects’ full dynamics and sonic glory. This insert is known as the amp’s effects loop."
https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/use-amps-effects-loop/

 

[vvvmmm]

Here, just stumbled on these:

 

[HelpImaRock]

The only amp I use an effects loop with is an old guitar amp, my Mesa Boogie Subway Rocket. It's slightly bigger than a Princeton Reverb and has an incredible amount of distortion available. So much so, that it hates overdrive pedals into the front end. I can get away with a clean boost, but that's about it. Because I switch between the onboard clean and distortion channels, I'll put certain time based effects in the effects loop because they sound better there.

My Allen Encore (tricked out Vibrolux Reverb) has no effects loop. I order the effects on my board how I want them and run them into the front end.

On bass, I experimented with running a BDDI into the effects return on my Markbass LMII. But what I found was the return ran in parallel with the onboard EQ, and that's not what I wanted. So I ran it into the front end and that was fine. Now I run a Mesa D-350 with everything into the front end.

This is all to say that unless you're getting a dirty sound from your amp, or you want to use pedal preamps in a series loop, you probably don't need to use your effects loop. Just order your effects the way you want them and go into the front end.