Effects Return & Preamp Pedals

[Jammy Jellyfish]

My band practices in rehearsal studios, and I rarely enjoy the backlines. I prefer clean amps, and most backlines are overly coloured, like the Aguilar Tone Hammer and the Orange Little Bass Thing. Another issue is my unfamiliarity with the backlines, such as how the TH's gain and drive knobs interact with the EQ or how the compressor in the LBT works.

I'm thinking about buying the Aguilar AG preamp pedal to use in the effects return of the TH, LBT and other cleaner backlines, such as Markbass and Trace Elliot amps.

What I'm wondering is, will the AG reliably work in the effects return of all amps?

I've tried running preamp pedals in the effects return of amps before, and it's never really worked all that well. It's never loud enough, even with the preamp and amp volumes cranked. Google is also telling me that the LBT has an overly coloured power amp, some TE amps have parallel effects loops and something about impedance and level matching.

Thing is, I can barely justify purchasing the AG as my band only rehearses 10 hours a month and hasn't had a gig since August. I also have the AG amp at home (I can't take it to rehearsal, because I take public transit), so it's redundant.

(I'm not opposed to hearing suggestions for other preamp pedals -- if what I want to do will work reliably -- but I probably would still only use it at rehearsals. With that in mind, my budget is about US$375, and I need something that works quickly, so I'm not all that keen on parametric EQs. I'm also looking for a clean preamp: not overly coloured and no distortion but also not transparent.)

Thanks!

 

[agedhorse]

You need to use a preamp pedal that has a true LINE LEVEL output, not an instrument level output.

 

[DonaldR]

Why not get a TE Elf (it will fit in your gigbag front pocket) and use the backline cab?

 

[fishdreams]

I use studio preamps with line level (lower level ones I got on sale or second hand) for that purpose. Still clean (which also can be different things - I negotiate between ‘jazz amp’ clean’ and ‘punchy rock clean’) with plenty of punch and power. I have a Golden Age Pre 73 jr (now on sale at Sweetwater) which has a great Jaco burp when pushed, and a Black Lion B12A which is very direct, punchy and a great low end retainer. Both come with their own power supplies, and not quite as portable as a pedal, and if you want eq options you’ll have to look elsewhere, but they do exactly what you asked for: clean, high powered sound of great quality, for not too much money.

 

[micguy]

Using random amp rigs for your on stage sound.....no matter what else you put in the chain with them, you have a bunch of uncontrolled variables between your bass and your ears. Adding more gear to try and fix that isn't really addressing the real problem - it's adding even more variables to a rig that already has too many.

Doing ampless gigs with in ears, I have none of those variables involved - when I step on stage, what I dialed in at home is exactly what I have on stage, or at rehearsal - wherever I go, my sound to my ears is the same. That frees up major portions of my brain that would otherwise be occupied with dealing with the situation - I just play, which is all I want to do anyway.

Yes, there is a learning curve, but (besides sounding better in the audience, which is also huge) this is the strength of an ampless rig - consistency for the player. You have no idea what you are missing until you try it.

And no, don't try it for the first time at a gig - do it at home, then at rehearsal, so you're past the learning curve before you step out in front of an audience. The people that say "tried it, didn't like it" usually did just that - tried it on a gig. Expecting to be able to dial in a good mix in a situation that is very different from what you're used to takes some time, but once you've put in that time and effort, you'll see (hear) what you've been missing.

 

[Passinwind]

You need to use a preamp pedal that has a true LINE LEVEL output, not an instrument level output.

Yep, which IME is actually pretty easy to build these days if manufacturers are suitably motivated.

 

[KevInDaBassment]

I'd just snag a micro amp (one TB'er already mentioned the TE Elf) and call it a day. Ones like the Elf or MB200 aren't THAT much bigger than many preamp pedals would be, plus you don't have to futz with pedal boards, external power supplies, or batteries for the preamp. You can get many used micro heads in the price range you cited.

Normally I'd say just use a preamp pedal and go direct to the board, but if you're insistent on using the backline I'd say the micro head is your best bet.

 

[MCS4]

You need to use a preamp pedal that has a true LINE LEVEL output, not an instrument level output.

This. I will add anecdotally that I have been using preamps or preamp pedals with appropriate output levels for years in the same general manner OP wants to do and have never had any issue using them in the effects loop of any bass amp.

 

[fishdreams]

To add: I also have a Quilter Inter-bass which has line level out , eq, and send/return. Clean, relatively speaking, Works as a very decent stand alone amp too if needed, (if the cab is big enough and high efficiency, those 45 wats get you further than you think), and pedal size and weight (not counting the propietary 24 V power supply). I like the pure tone of my studio pres better, but the Interbass to me worked way better than any typical pedal pre I’ve tried.

 

[Nebadon2000]

It will be a 'Maybe' Maybe Not' with using a Preamp Pedal based on your acquired skill level in using preamp for variable backlines

@micguy has best scenario if your not one who needs emotional boost of live Rig but you will have to insure your in monitors for other players or still have backline amp in mix not sure how that may interfere with IEM

I am guessing your band uses multiple Studios: band I played with used Studio rehearsal a few times due to circumstance I always brought my rig with me

 

[sheesh]

I'd just snag a micro amp (one TB'er already mentioned the TE Elf) and call it a day. Ones like the Elf or MB200 [...]

I have owned both, prefered the MB200 ~$400. It fits in your gig bag.

 

[Nebadon2000]

PS to my post above
If you go Mini Head route make sure it has combo Speakon or proper adapter for Mini's Speaker out along with something to keep those very lightweight Mini Heads on top of Amp or Cab

 

[KidAmnesia]

I've nevrr had a problem with a preamp going into the fx loop, but I never tried the AG.

Bear in mind that different power stages and most of all different cabs will yield a different tone even if the oreamp is the same. You will have to adjust your settings to the cab and room if you.want a consistent tone.

An alternative would be to convince your band to chose one rehearsal space and learn how to get a tone you can work with out of its backline amp. I'm sure your drummer would also like to play always the same kit.

 

[burgerdj]

You need to use a preamp pedal that has a true LINE LEVEL output, not an instrument level output.

This. And depending on the design of the preamp pedal you may need to use a TRS cable, not TS.

 

[micguy]

@micguy has best scenario if your not one who needs emotional boost of live Rig but you will have to insure your in monitors for other players or still have backline amp in mix not sure how that may interfere with IEM

The PA’s in the bigger places I play have tens of kilowatts for the subs. With clear audio in your ears, and a massive PA shsking…everything, there’s more “emotiinal boost” than any bass amp can provide. None of this is new - my eotld has been ampless for well over a decade.

In my world, literslly everyone hears themselves via in ears - there are no issues with mixed systems or amps.

 

[Wasnex]

The biggest problem you are dealing with is gear varies from one design to the next. So there is no silver bullet solution to your problem. A preamp that sounds great plugged into a specific amp and cab may not work well if either the amp or cab are different models. The tone issues you are dealing with may be with the baked in voicing of the amps and/or the baked in voicing of the speaker. Running a preamp into the effects loop of one of the available amps bypasses the built in preamp, but it does not bypass whatever voicing maybe baked into the output section or speaker. My point is using a different preamp may not solve the problem.

As Agedhorse mentioned, it's usually necessary to drive effects loops with a line level signal. Some preamps deliver instrument level. They are designed to be plugged into another pedal or into the front end of a bass amp. Line level is a significantly hotter signal. Most effect loops run at line level.

I also have the AG amp at home (I can't take it to rehearsal, because I take public transit), so it's redundant.

Not sure I buy this. Size and weight of current AG700.

Yes there are smaller/lighter amps, but you should be able to deal with something of this size unless you are already at your limit with other stuff. Rather than buying a preamp, perhaps you would be better off investing in a good carry bag for the amp.

At the very least, I suggest trying your AG amp with the speaker.

Alternately: Make the effort to learn how the provided amps work and learn how to get as close as possible to your desired tone. You may also need to lower your expectations, because the only way to get exactly what you want may be to bring your own rig. I understand that is not reasonable when using public transit, which is why you have to make the best of available gear.