Egypt

[onosson]

I usually say more power to the people, but I'm not sure what those protesters really want. Do they want a more liberal, tolerant, secular govt, or do they want a more fundamental, sharia based islamic theocracy like Iran?

So ... support for democracy, unless they want something you don't like?

I'm not arguing for a theocracy (I'm an atheist/agnostic/don't-care-ist) but just trying to follow your line of thinking.

 

[warwick.hoy]

do you mean concerned in regards to the current situation in egypt or in general as an ally of the u.s.a.?

in re egypt, they share a border that has been basically "peaceful" since jimmy carter's accord. it would be quite a step backward to lose that.

i sometimes wonder myself about the general sense. israel is a tough ally to hold onto, IMHO. the gov there does things that i don't think make good policy, but our gov has to walk the fine line of defending their actions while trying to make peace with the arabic nations around them. i feel for the palestinians who seem to get dissed by every group in the middle east.

please forgive the hijack.

In general.

 

[EBodious]

In general.

don't know how far into that we can go here. i guess our gov thinks having a non-islamic ally in the region is good. throwing israel under the bus at this point isn't really an option. foreign policy is a very convoluted thing.

i gotta go, i got a gig tonite. lemme know if you solve this one.

 

[warwick.hoy]

I have mixed feelings about Israel, but I agree,...discussion of this is a fine line for infraction.

Figuring it out? Yeah not likely.

 

[SurferJoe46]

A LINK to some of what's happening right now.

Looks bad.

 

[warwick.hoy]

YIKES!!

 

[Muusers]

Word on CNN now is that vigilante groups protect Cairo's national museum (where tut's sarcophagus is) against looters. Also chaos outside the Interior Ministery where the police is shooting rubber bullets, tear gas and live rounds at the crowd. Cairo's airport is flooded with people desperate to leave the country.

Feces hits the fan.

 

[UncleFluffy]

I really wish that something like this could happen over here.

"Maggie, Maggie, Maggie ... Out Out Out"

ah, memories ...

 

[Cabazon]

Word on CNN now is that vigilante groups protect Cairo's national museum (where tut's sarcophagus is) against looters.

That's good to hear. I'm most concerned about things like that. There's a lot of history there, and a lot more to learn from it too.

 

[stingray2112]

I try to stay away from the political side of things but Egypt has my vote in the situation.

 

[burk48237]

So ... support for democracy, unless they want something you don't like?

I'm not arguing for a theocracy (I'm an atheist/agnostic/don't-care-ist) but just trying to follow your line of thinking.

This is what makes documents like the Bill of Rights so important. Hitler got elected democratically once. A democracy without freedom of speech, assembly, religion, and expression and without any protections for minorities, is not always a better alternative.

Having said that, I do follow the mideast and history a bit. If there's any nation in the Arab Muslim ME that could turn out OK the odds are pretty good for a decent government. The country has a large middle class, large minorities that have been treated half way decent, and a more educated population then most.

 

[jmattbassplaya]

This is what makes documents like the Bill of Rights so important. Hitler got elected democratically once. A democracy without freedom of speech, assembly, religion, and expression and without any protections for minorities, is not always a better alternative.

Having said that, I do follow the mideast and history a bit. If there's any nation in the Arab Muslim ME that could turn out OK the odds are pretty good for a decent government. The country has a large middle class, large minorities that have been treated half way decent, and a more educated population then most.

Did he really? I thought he lost the election (like twice) and only got appointed to the position after he had acquired a lot of friends in high places in Germany's political arena.

 

[burk48237]

Did he really? I thought he lost the election (like twice) and only got appointed to the position after he had acquired a lot of friends in high places in Germany's political arena.

Well Technically he won in 1933 as the National Socialist won 43% of the vote and formed a government with a few other parties in a parliamentary election. I just happen to have started a book called "Blodlands" the history of the land between Russia and Germans from the end of WW 1 thru WW 2.

 

[bassrique]

In other Mideast news, two persons [one a Canadian] were sentenced to death by hanging in Iran today. Their crime? Porn. Not kiddie porn, just porn.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.fae0da60412a671e262f1f5567c43dbb.871&show_article=1

:scowl:

I would not last long there.

 

[aborgman]

It worries me that by destabilizing the Egyptian Government, the door may be opened for a fundamentalist Islamic takeover. That is the last thing the area, and especially Israel, needs.

At some point we need to decide whether we as a country support democracy and freedom, or whether we only support it if it isn't inconvenient to us.

 

[aborgman]

Besides the fact that some experts think Israel may have something nuclear in their arsenal, which has been suspected for a few decades, but never proven.

There is no question the Israelis have nuclear weapons.

In fact most estimates figure they have the third most deployable nukes, behind only the USA and Russia.

Heck, we KNOW they stole fissile material from the USA.

 

[sloasdaylight]

At some point we need to decide whether we as a country support democracy and freedom, or whether we only support it if it isn't inconvenient to us.

Fundamentalist Islamic governments can rarely be considered democracy and a free country.

And the government that seizes control during a revolution is just that, one that seized control.

 

[onosson]

At some point we need to decide whether we as a country support democracy and freedom, or whether we only support it if it isn't inconvenient to us.

That's what I was wondering about... I'm guessing the answer is the latter.

 

[Johnny Fila]

I suspect the beginning motives of the protestors were fairly pure, the country certainly has major economic and social issues. And the fact that ELBarahdi, a fairly moderate force showed up is a good thing. My fear is that the Muslim Brotherhood will take advantage of the situation to set up another Islamic utopia. If this happens I suspect many of those on the street (especially the Christians) will be look back fondly on the Mubarek regime. Time will tell.

Invalid Link Removed

 

[aborgman]

Fundamentalist Islamic governments can rarely be considered democracy and a free country.
.

...but if the people in a nation desire that, should they not have the government of their choosing?

Never mind our repeated overthrows/interference with completely democratically elected governments who happen to disagree with us ideologically...

See: Slavador Allende in Chile, Banana Republics, Mossadeq in Iran, etc.