Egypt

[sloasdaylight]

...but if the people in a nation desire that, should they not have the government of their choosing?

Never mind our repeated overthrows/interference with completely democratically elected governments who happen to disagree with us ideologically...

See: Slavador Allende in Chile, Banana Republics, Mossadeq in Iran, etc.

I'm not saying that, but don't pretend that it's a democratic or free society in the way that the US is, because it's not. See: Iran, Afghanistan under the Taliban, etc. Those states were not free, and those people were not free, at least in any way that most people with western eyes would view freedom.

Also like I said, the government that seizes control in the fray is just that, the one that seizes control, and I don't think you can necessarily think that it's always an accurate representation of what the people want. If you've got a situation where people come out and protest against an oppressive government, and as a result of the fray, some one comes out and establishes them self or their party as the governing body, and 2 years in announces a new sweeping set of oppressive laws, opens camps, and does other things like that, you can't just shrug your shoulders and say "Oh, well that's what they wanted" and let them have at it.

 

[MIJ-VI]

The Taliban even outlawed music...

 

[Demon_Hunter]

Are there any TBers that live there?

 

[bassrique]

Are there any TBers that live there?

I don't recall seeing "Egypt" in the location parameter, and it'll be hard for any Egyptian TBers to check in because the government there ordered the ISPs to shut 'er down.

 

[onosson]

I'm not saying that, but don't pretend that it's a democratic or free society in the way that the US is, because it's not. See: Iran, Afghanistan under the Taliban, etc. Those states were not free, and those people were not free, at least in any way that most people with western eyes would view freedom.

Also like I said, the government that seizes control in the fray is just that, the one that seizes control, and I don't think you can necessarily think that it's always an accurate representation of what the people want. If you've got a situation where people come out and protest against an oppressive government, and as a result of the fray, some one comes out and establishes them self or their party as the governing body, and 2 years in announces a new sweeping set of oppressive laws, opens camps, and does other things like that, you can't just shrug your shoulders and say "Oh, well that's what they wanted" and let them have at it.

But the U.S. has supported the existing regime in Egypt for some time, no? Ergo, the U.S. doesn't really care that it wasn't really a democracy.

 

[bassrique]

But the U.S. has supported the existing regime in Egypt for some time, no? Ergo, the U.S. doesn't really care that it wasn't really a democracy.

Realpolitik. You take what you can get. The devil you do know is better than the devil you don't and so on and so forth.

And besides, Egypt hasn't attacked Israel lately or messed with the Suez Canal.

 

[onosson]

Realpolitik. You take what you can get. The devil you do know is better than the devil you don't and so on and so forth.

And besides, Egypt hasn't attacked Israel lately or messed with the Suez Canal.

Of course, I just wish more people would come out and say it rather than all this "freedom" talk!

 

[Jim Campbell]

Of course, I just wish more people would come out and say it rather than all this "freedom" talk!

stability in the region is generally what is preferred by the west.....we will put up with almost anyone as long as they keep the machine rolling....once things become unstable,we can trot out human rights abuses to justify replacing any leader that makes us uncomfortable....

 

[bassrique]

Of course, I just wish more people would come out and say it rather than all this "freedom" talk!

Freedom and human rights is a concern at the State Department, but as we know, that concern sits in the back seat most of the time.

 

[onosson]

stability in the region is generally what is preferred by the west.....we will put up with almost anyone as long as they keep the machine rolling....once things become unstable,we can trot out human rights abuses to justify replacing any leader that makes us uncomfortable....

Yep, that does sum us up pretty accurately.

 

[onosson]

Freedom and human rights is a concern at the State Department, but as we know, that concern sits in the back seat most of the time.

I think it's somewhere in the trunk, under the spare tire. But no, I'm not cynical

 

[anonymous122511]

I think it's somewhere in the trunk, under the spare tire. But no, I'm not cynical

It's something we thought we were gonna get at the point of purchase but if you look in the trunk under the spare tire you'll find it was never even there. I'm not cynical either..... just facing the obvious tale that even a cursory study of history tells.

 

[bassrique]

It's something we thought we were gonna get at the point of purchase but if you look in the trunk under the spare tire you'll find it was never even there. I'm not cynical either..... just facing the obvious tale that even a cursory study of history tells.

Horsefeathers. Any objective observation of US foreign policy will notice a distinct difference between America and other world powers looking back through history. Perspective is the only valuable measure to keep track of these things.

 

[anonymous122511]

Horsefeathers. Any objective observation of US foreign policy will notice a distinct difference between America and other world powers looking back through history. Perspective is the only valuable measure to keep track of these things.

An objective assessment of what US foreign policy has achieved this century proves it fundamentally no different from any other empire. As it grow it it increasingly ignores the needs of people including its own. The proof is in the results rather than any stated intentions....politicians lie, the results of their actions don't.

 

[bassrique]

An objective assessment of what US foreign policy has achieved this century proves it fundamentally no different from any other empire. As it grow it it increasingly ignores the needs of people including its own. The proof is in the results rather than any stated intentions....politicians lie, the results of their actions don't.

Let's get specific. Name some empires.

 

[SurferJoe46]

The Incas started eating all their citizens for a start.

The rest of history gets worse, I'm afraid,

 

[Donny Bassman]

Power to the People!!!
Another systems' failed.
With the power in the mass,
We'll win the world back.

 

[anonymous122511]

Let's get specific. Name some empires.

Rome is a good place to start. The similarities there are staggering.

I will also say that if you firmly believe the publicly stated goals of US foreign policy then I don't have time to debate this further with you. I have better things to do than beat my head against the wall of blind idiocy.

 

[Donny Bassman]

I really wish that something like this could happen over here.

Its only a matter of time befor thee american people wake up and see that there freedom is an illusion.

"just plastic soldgers in a miniture dirt war"

 

[bassrique]

Rome is a good place to start. The similarities there are staggering.

I will also say that if you firmly believe the publicly stated goals of US foreign policy then I don't have time to debate this further with you. I have better things to do than beat my head against the wall of blind idiocy.

Rome? You would like to compare and contrast US foreign policy with that of the Roman Empire?

IMO, a better answer would have been Britannia.