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Double Bass Electronic Tuners
- Thread starter Steve Freides
- Start date
The whole question of whether or not to use a tuner is a fine one, albeit one I didn't ask. I agree with both sides of this. On the one hand, I've been teaching music since 1971 and did not use or recommend tuners to my students until very recently.
But there's another side of this, too - many young student simple can't grok tuning just yet, and there is a real, measurable, and bad thing that happens when they play an out of tune instrument for most of the week between their lessons. I've decided, at least for the time being, to take the tuner road and see if, overall, I think the benefits outweigh the lack of the admittedly important ability to tune one's instrument by one's self, unaided by gadgets save a reference tone.
So, all that said, I want my students to know how to use a tuner, and to use one regularly, at least until such time as they can learn to tune their instrument without one. Maybe I'll change my mind down the road but that's where I'm at now.
Your continued comments about tuners are appreciated - the information about the Peterson and why it's more expensive was very interesting. I am, however, mostly interested in a tuner I can get my students to use. The Sabine Zoid 3000 is looking promising to me, in part because it can also deal with things like French Horn in F, another thing I play and teach. I've decided to get one of those and give it a try, and probably will hold off on the Peterson until I've at least given the Zoid a try.
-S-
But there's another side of this, too - many young student simple can't grok tuning just yet, and there is a real, measurable, and bad thing that happens when they play an out of tune instrument for most of the week between their lessons. I've decided, at least for the time being, to take the tuner road and see if, overall, I think the benefits outweigh the lack of the admittedly important ability to tune one's instrument by one's self, unaided by gadgets save a reference tone.
So, all that said, I want my students to know how to use a tuner, and to use one regularly, at least until such time as they can learn to tune their instrument without one. Maybe I'll change my mind down the road but that's where I'm at now.
Your continued comments about tuners are appreciated - the information about the Peterson and why it's more expensive was very interesting. I am, however, mostly interested in a tuner I can get my students to use. The Sabine Zoid 3000 is looking promising to me, in part because it can also deal with things like French Horn in F, another thing I play and teach. I've decided to get one of those and give it a try, and probably will hold off on the Peterson until I've at least given the Zoid a try.
-S-
The Stroboclip works with horns too, and the key doesn't really matter because it's a chromatic tuner.
Link Removed
Link Removed
Also, read up on the Peterson site about the "Sweetened" tunings it offers. That is a feature no tuners on the market offer except Petersons, and it really does make instruments like guitars and mandolins sound much better.
For French Horn, when it says "G" on your music, the pitch that comes out is "C" (assuming Horn in F, which is what everyone learns first). If the tuner says a different note than you're playing, most young students would get confused, and many adults would as well.
-S-
From the reviews I've been delving into, it seems that michaeln isn't the only one pointing out the instability of the Sabine's color-changing "in-tune" display.
I've whittled it down to:
Intellitouch PT 30
Korg AW-2
Crafter TG-200H
Peterson Stroboclip
and would love to hear more opinions.
I've whittled it down to:
Intellitouch PT 30
Korg AW-2
Crafter TG-200H
Peterson Stroboclip
and would love to hear more opinions.
Jake deVilliers
Commercial User
- May 24, 2006
- 6,349
- 607
- Disclosures
- Owner of The Bass Spa, String Repairman at Long & McQuade Vancouver
The Intelli IMT-500 works fine on all the stringed instruments I see around here: DB, guitar, banjo, mandolin and Dobro are the most common.
My wife still prefers her old Korg DT-2 and piezo clip on her bass - she says its more accurate.
My wife still prefers her old Korg DT-2 and piezo clip on her bass - she says its more accurate.
You are a more experienced teacher than me so take this however you see fit. I wasn't just trying to be a wise a$$ (though I'm sure it came off that way and was slightly intended to). I know this is a derail so feel free to ignore.
I started on trombone and my teacher made us spend lots of time with one of those old school Peterson strobe tuners. At the time it didn't seem like a big deal.
Later I picked up the EB and again used a tuner for everything. With the bass electronically tuned and frets I was ready to rock. I remember once doing a gig and my tuner battery died and I had to get somebody else to help tune my bass.
When it came time to do sight singing and ear training I was lost. I had never been expected to do anything by ear. This also made my eventual switch to DB that much harder. I had to do quite a bit of focused work to catch up.
Now I don't let my students use electronic tuners or tape or any visual aide to accomplish an AURAL task. This is certainly a reaction to my experience and I'm sure a tuner can be used responsibly. I just don't know how to teach kids not to depend on it. I introduce my students to sight singing and ear training from day one.
All that said I have the Korg CA-30 (which is an older version of the CA-40). It is $15 and seems plenty accurate. Loud bar or practice room.
I started on trombone and my teacher made us spend lots of time with one of those old school Peterson strobe tuners. At the time it didn't seem like a big deal.
Later I picked up the EB and again used a tuner for everything. With the bass electronically tuned and frets I was ready to rock. I remember once doing a gig and my tuner battery died and I had to get somebody else to help tune my bass.
When it came time to do sight singing and ear training I was lost. I had never been expected to do anything by ear. This also made my eventual switch to DB that much harder. I had to do quite a bit of focused work to catch up.
Now I don't let my students use electronic tuners or tape or any visual aide to accomplish an AURAL task. This is certainly a reaction to my experience and I'm sure a tuner can be used responsibly. I just don't know how to teach kids not to depend on it. I introduce my students to sight singing and ear training from day one.
All that said I have the Korg CA-30 (which is an older version of the CA-40). It is $15 and seems plenty accurate. Loud bar or practice room.
No disclaimer necessary.
Yes, you do.
And that's how you do it.
I start with a very simple thing we call playback dictation here - I tell them I'm going to use a small handful of notes, e.g., the first 5 notes of a C major scale, and that I'm always going to start and end on C, then I play little things for them and have them play them back for me on their instruments, no peeking at my fingers allowed.
-S-
I have always found this to be a great introduction to music theory; confusion plus the right tools and instruction = understanding! Intervals and transposition are important for kids to learn at a young age. The tuner and a good old transposition wheel or transposing slide rule are great tools for kids to know how to use! I think they contribute enormously to the understanding of one's instrument. Adventures in musical problem solving!
Nice. That's a great activity. I wasn't always an anti-tuner fanatic. I must be getting old and grumpy.
+1.
Picked one up at the weekend from GC for the wife's guitar - picks up very nicely, and the whole backlight color change is great for people who play without their glasses on...
I tend to use tuners more on EB than DB, it's a odd quirk of mine. In gig situations I've always felt more comfortable tuning to the instrument that's providing the chords. That said, with kids it's a little different. I think the focus should be getting to playing the instrument, if there having a difficult time tuning then using a tuner is fine, eventually they have to do it on their own though, ocassionally, there's kid who can't tune because they have problems discerning pitch.
Ric
Well, turns out that my luthier recently did his own clip-on tuner "shoot-out." The Sabine won. So, despite the few reports of instability with regard to the "in tune" display, I ordered one. So, SteveFreides and I will both be in the Sabine boat. 
Well, turns out that my luthier recently did his own clip-on tuner "shoot-out." The Sabine won. So, despite the few reports of instability with regard to the "in tune" display, I ordered one. So, SteveFreides and I will both be in the Sabine boat.
I haven't found any tuning problems with the Sabine...it's much better at zeroing in on a pitch than my older Intellitouch.
Thanks for sharing! In fact, an Intellitouch and the Sabine were part of the face-off. The report was as you said-- the Sabine was found to lock on faster.
Sabine arrived yesterday - actually, 4 of them did, because I ordered 4 to have some for students. The report:
First try was on French Horn - the transposition feature was cool, clipped it onto the horn where the lead pipe meets the rest of the horn, did the job.
Second try was upright bass - clipped onto the bridge, also seemed to work just fine.
And, fwiw, I also have a PlayOn tuner, which I got for free somewhere along the way, that I noticed has a "bass mode", which also seems to work just fine.
So, for me so far, not much to mention different between tuners.
One comment - I recall reading the Peterson is accurate to 1/10th cent. I can't imagine a situation for upright bass where that kind of precision is necessary. I'm sure there's a lengthy discussion to be had here but I just don't see the need.
-S-
First try was on French Horn - the transposition feature was cool, clipped it onto the horn where the lead pipe meets the rest of the horn, did the job.
Second try was upright bass - clipped onto the bridge, also seemed to work just fine.
And, fwiw, I also have a PlayOn tuner, which I got for free somewhere along the way, that I noticed has a "bass mode", which also seems to work just fine.
So, for me so far, not much to mention different between tuners.
One comment - I recall reading the Peterson is accurate to 1/10th cent. I can't imagine a situation for upright bass where that kind of precision is necessary. I'm sure there's a lengthy discussion to be had here but I just don't see the need.
-S-
I agree with you wholeheartedly. That's an impressive precision to be sure but let's put some numbers on this. If you started with 1000 Hz and increased that frequency by 0.1 cent, you'd have 1000.06 Hz. That's far, far below what any human can discern. From the point of view of physics, it would be quite impressive for any "non-electronic" instrument to hold frequency constant within anything close to that tolerance. I could imagine that precision might be handy if one were concerned about accumulated errors. For example, if one needed to tune to a reference frequency, then use that frequency as a reference for the next and so on. I don't where that would come up in practical musical performance situations.
I'm a convert to the StroboClip. The convenience of a clip on with the quick response and accuracy of a Peterson is a no-brainer. First tune-up at a gig I was giddy it was so easy.
I've also had good luck with the StroboFlip (bulky and fragile for gigging, needs a pickup in noisy rooms), Strobostomp (pickup only, battery eater), and the Sonic Research Turbo Tuner (claims higher accuracy than the Petersons, and again, a pickup is needed).
Disclaimer--I played DB for many years before knowing that electronic tuners existed. If I'm playing at home, I generally tune by ear. If I'm playing with an orchestra, I tune by ear. If I'm playing a jazz/rock/folk/country gig I'll use the tuner. The thing I like about the Petersons and the Turbo Tuner is that they quickly and easily get me in tune how my ears like it. I can't say that about many other electronic tuners. It's the constant battle of tune to the tuner, then adjust on the fly. With the Petersons/TT, I can trust the silent-before-the-gig/on-stage/too-noisy-of-a-room-to-hear-my-bass tuning to be as good as ideal condition ear-tuning.
I've also had good luck with the StroboFlip (bulky and fragile for gigging, needs a pickup in noisy rooms), Strobostomp (pickup only, battery eater), and the Sonic Research Turbo Tuner (claims higher accuracy than the Petersons, and again, a pickup is needed).
Disclaimer--I played DB for many years before knowing that electronic tuners existed. If I'm playing at home, I generally tune by ear. If I'm playing with an orchestra, I tune by ear. If I'm playing a jazz/rock/folk/country gig I'll use the tuner. The thing I like about the Petersons and the Turbo Tuner is that they quickly and easily get me in tune how my ears like it. I can't say that about many other electronic tuners. It's the constant battle of tune to the tuner, then adjust on the fly. With the Petersons/TT, I can trust the silent-before-the-gig/on-stage/too-noisy-of-a-room-to-hear-my-bass tuning to be as good as ideal condition ear-tuning.
