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Double Bass Electronic Tuners

#41
The 1/10 cent accuracy is just an example of the quality and engineering behind the Peterson. I agree, you can't hear that kind of accuracy. But most other tuners don't list their accuracy at all. I have a Planet Waves clipon tuner that changes color. Yep, the display will turn green when the Peterson will show the note to be quite a bit out of tune. The unit's own meter shows the note to not be in tune, but the display changes color. I suspect that most of the "display changes color" units use the same chip inside to do the measurements.

There are lots of reasons to prefer the Petersons over other tuners. The 1/10 cent accuracy spec is one of the least important reasons.
 
#43
I understand the 1/10 cent is just a reflection of other good stuff, but just to put some more numbers and experiences to this:

When I was in music school, once in a while the game in the student lounge was "Let's try to stump Steve, the geek with perfect pitch.". Someone with a metronome that could do A=435 through A=445 would play a single note for me and I'd have to identify the exact Hz. I often got it exactly right or was off by 1 Hz and was never off by more than 2 Hz which, in the area of A=440, is about 8 cents.

1 cent accuracy is plenty sufficient - if it's off by 1 cent either way, then you're saying your 440 is between 439.75 and 440.25 Hz - close enough.

-S-
 
#45
michaeln said:
I've said my piece. Enjoy your cheap tuners, guys!
Click to expand...

I think we will enjoy our inexpensive (not "cheap") tuners. While the Peterson is a superior device, the cost of its superior performance and precision comes, for me anyway, with no additional advantage in terms of practical function. Owning a device like the Peterson may have its own intrinsic rewards for you. I do understand. After all, I'd enjoy having a Patek Philippe more than I would a Timex. That's true even though they are likely to even have the same precision. When it comes to tuning, I just want to tell time. :)
 
#46
Yeah, but the Timex would be more accurate! For timekeeping accuracy,
you can't beat digital (or so my brothers tell me (one works in a high-end
watch shop, the other a pawnshop that deals in high-end watches)).

The StroboClip is significantly more affordable than the older Peterson tuners,and for me is
a no-brainer at $69.99 shipped. I've spent more than that on cheap tuners over the years.
http://accessories.musiciansfriend....StroboClip-SC1-ClipOn-Strobe-Tuner?sku=712736
The StroboStomp was $79 used, the StroboFLip $160 on sale at MF, and the Turbo Tuner $129.99.

It has rendered my StroboStomp and potentially the Turbo Tuner unnecessary.
I'll keep the StroboFlip for guitar setups and home use (it's actually mounted on my desk).
 
#47
Wild Rice Chris said:
Yeah, but the Timex would be more accurate!
Click to expand...

Nope, Pattek-Phillipe offers quartz watches too. It's the circuitry that counts (e.g., inhibition compensation, etc.). At $25 for a Sabine Z-1000 that has all the precision any human musician could ever need, it's a no-brainer for me to try one. We'll see how it goes.
 
#48
Long ago, I attended a lecture by Norman Ramsey, inventor of the atomic clock. He told a story of his search for the world's most accurate watch. At the conclusion, he pulled up his sleeve and showed off his five-dollar Casio watch from the drug store.
 
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#49
I've been thinking more about this discussion. The Peterson has a claimed accuracy of 1/10 cent. There is, of course, a difference between precision and accuracy. The former refers to the tolerance and/or repeatability of a measure; the latter refers to how close the measure is to the true value. I have no difficulty accepting that the stroboscopic display of the Peterson allows for a precision of 1/10 cent. When the frequency at the input of the device deviates from what the device "thinks" is the correct value, you see the display "move" one way or the other. Using the perception of motion in this way is, and has been for decades, a very clever idea. What the device "thinks" is correct goes to accuracy. Now, consider this. For the Peterson to be accurate to within 1/10 cent means that at 440 Hz it is calibrated to within about 25/1000 of 1 Hz!

Take a look at the Peterson's text for their Stroborack tuner:

Precision Accuracy
An important advantage of Virtual Strobe Technology™ is that no “in tune/out of tune” decision is ever made electronically-a process inherently subject to inaccuracy. Your eye simply interprets the motion of the pattern as an indication of tuning error relative to the target pitch. Only this method provides the high level of resolution in a Peterson strobe tuner that allows unprecedented accuracy in tuning to "standard" pitches and permits one to utilize the subtler shades of altered temperaments and Sweeteners™ found as presets in our tuners. It is this superior precision that also allows user-programmed tunings with up to 1/10th cent resolution settings to be achieved.

"Precision Accuracy"? Is it precision or accuracy? The context seems to make clear that they're talking about resolution (precision) and not accuracy. That is, the user can discern a 1/10 cent change. In the specs that same resolution is claimed as the accuracy. Confused? You should be.

For now, I accept that the Peterson display allows for a deviation of 1/10 cent to be discerned. That's a hallmark of their stroboscopic display. Do I believe that the $70 Strobolclip is accurate to within 25/1000 of 1 Hz at 440 Hz. No, I don't. Certainly not at all temperatures under which it might be used.

I'm guessing that the actual accuracy of the Peterson Stroboclip is as good or better than the less expensive tuners on the market. That, coupled with its superior precision (resolution) makes it a fine deal for those who desire to be able to discern such small deviations.
 
#50
The Sabine Z-1000 arrived today and I immediately checked it against two other tuners. While the Sabine has no trouble locking onto the note, it's the odd man out when it comes to calibration. The two other tuners agreed when a note was dead on in tune with the Sabine calling it 5 cents sharp. I'm not keeping it. Looks like a Peterson just might be in my future! Five cents is a ridiculous error for a tuner. I'd sure rather have overkill in terms of accuracy and precision.
 
#54
Wild Rice Chris said:
The StroboClip is significantly more affordable than the older Peterson tuners,and for me is a no-brainer at $69.99 shipped.
Click to expand...

About 10 years ago, I owned a Peterson Autostrobe 490:

411LD5VUXpL.jpg


Talk about expensive! List price is $870.00. I sold it on EBay after owning it for a couple years and got almost $500 for it.

So yes, when I can get the precision and engineering of a Peterson strobe tuner for less than 70 bucks, it seemed scarily inexpensive to me.

Worth every penny.
 
#55
I had a Peterson Electronic tuner for a while. Not a real stroboscopic one- it was a blue thing about the size of a brick with the pretend stroboscopic display.
I found it temperamental and a real battery-eater. In the end it just stopped working.
Now I have a little Seiko jobby that has worked flawlessly so far and goes with my HEQ Grand Seiko watch! ;)
 
#58
drurb said:
The Sabine Z-1000 arrived today and I immediately checked it against two other tuners. While the Sabine has no trouble locking onto the note, it's the odd man out when it comes to calibration. The two other tuners agreed when a note was dead on in tune with the Sabine calling it 5 cents sharp. I'm not keeping it. Looks like a Peterson just might be in my future! Five cents is a ridiculous error for a tuner. I'd sure rather have overkill in terms of accuracy and precision.
Click to expand...

Are you sure the Zoid was set to A=440? I ask only because 5 cents is about 1 Hz at around 440, so if the Sabine was set to 439 or 441, that would explain.

I've got three different brands of tuners here now, plus a metronome that'll produce A=440 and nearby. I'll try to test them all against each other and see what I get.

I did check my Sabine against my piano and it found the piano, which is in pretty good tune, dead on except for those few keys where my ear had already picked up that it was out.

Might it also be you got a bad Sabine? Worth asking for another one, maybe?

Very interesting, all this, folks. Thanks to everyone for their contributions. If I don't get to do my tuner comparison right away, I'll get to it after the kids are back in school after the first of the new year.

-S-
 
#60
I always thought tuners were for non musicians with bad ears. When I first moved to NYC, I heard that Homer Mensch was playing in a chamber concert - the only bassist. Homer was the bass prof. at Julliard for decades - the cat who taught the cats - and a first call free lance classical and studio musician. I went to the concert, and when Homer came out on stage, the first thing he did was take a tuner out of his pocket, put it on the stand, and stare at it while he tuned. I've used one ever since.
 
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