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Eminence Speaker Rattle

otis_thick

otis_thick

May 14, 2005
827
14
Indianapolis, IN
fandalism.com
#1
For anyone who has heard the mysterious NEO speaker buzz at low power. I too had the speaker rattle with my new Avatar B410 NEO and found what was causing it. I emailed Dave and he was going to deal with Eminence. As most of you know, Emi is in a lot of different brand cabinets. There is a list of what companies they OEM for, this may apply to yours as well. This is what was happening with my case.
I used a 40hz tone at about 75-100 watts. A 1khz tone wont provide enough cone movement to produce the mystery rattle.

The lead wires from the speaker connection to the voice coil (behind the cone) were/are a little long. This allows them to rattle against the back of the cone at low FQ. Plus, the microphonic properties of the speaker along with the high magnet strength, causes the rattling to translate back to the crossover and to the other speakers (think of the speaker as a big dynamic microphone is reverse) I used "glue stick" and 2 cotton balls between the cone and the lead wires and all is quiet now. It appears to be a manufacturing QC issue because only 2 of the 4-10s had the longer wires. As I mentioned above, I relayed this to Dave and he is working on it! He told me to mail back bad speakers but I did not mind solving it since I already had it apart and found my problem was easy to fix.

Cedric Freeman
Link Removed
"Bass player do it in the bottom!"-Otis Thick!
 
#4
sorry for bumping this up but

i opened up my B210 NEO and tried to figure out what it is that otis_thick did with the cotton balls but couldnt quite determine where it is that you stick em to stop the lead from hitting the cone.

here's the speaker diagram from Eminence.
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

do i have to take the speaker completely apart as shown above to do the fix?
 
#6
Like Bill said, you can remove some of the slack by bending the terminals. Just don't remove TOO much slack, or you might eventually have a broken tinsel lead.

When I recone bass drivers, I use an the old trick of tacking the lead to the spider first and then to the terminals. It shortens the unsupported lead length.

I do have a problem with one line in the original post:

..."the microphonic properties of the speaker along with the high magnet strength, causes the rattling to translate back to the crossover and to the other speakers (think of the speaker as a big dynamic microphone is reverse)..."

Sorry, but this is electronically impossible. The rattle of the leads would not cause enough, if any, back EMF to drive the other speakers in the cabinet.
 
#7
Hmm, I'm having a mysterious buzzing problem (usually when I hit the low E, and the buzz comes and goes) with one of the 10's in my B210 NEO. I'll have to give this a shot. I did pull the speaker and noticed the wires were long, and thought they might be vibrating against something, but I didn't think it would be the coice coil wires coming right off of the terminals. I'll have to check it out.

Asad
 
#9
great to hear that simply bending the terminal lugs solved your problem, Asad.

As for me, I'm confused as to what exactly it is that i need to do.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

If I'm aiming to get rid of some slack on the tinsel lead (the silver lead, right?), then am i trying to bend the metal #2 upwards and away from the cone? (seems sort of hard to bend.. maybe with pliers?)

i don't have the time to unscrew the grill and speaker again, so please bear with me on this one.
 
#10
actually, vince, I think the lead that is too long is the silver ones between that connection block and the speaker coil, the silver wire just above-left of the red wire in your pic.
I believe you'd have to bend that tab (#2) just slightly to lessen the slack in that silver lead
 
#12
I just got a nice used Avatar 410 neo. I do really like the sound of it. But it suffers from that little "rattle" problem. It's not the cab, it's definitely the speakers. Narrowed it down to one speaker and broke into the box. Oh, let me add that the screw bit fell out of the drill and down the port at the start of the operation and managed to wedge itself in the sound dampening material all the way in the back corner. Curses.

Regardless, the rattle was odd. I would get no change at all by handling the coil leads while driving the speaker. But sure enough, if I would actually pry back on the terminal, then the buzz would go away. Problem cured. Then I hear it in another speaker. Same repair. Problem cured. Then I hear it in speaker number three. Well, I've chased it around the cab to the last speaker and I'm too tired to mess with it tonight. It's not my imagination darnit! I have chased that little rattle all the way to speaker number four. Perhaps they all did it and I just moved to the next smallest offender each time. Would I hear this in a band setting? Probably not. But I think it is pronounced enough to creep into a close mic.
 
#13
I have the same problem with my neo 4x10. I've been told that if I gently move the cone and hear a clicking sound that the speaker is technically "blown," beecuase the coil is either warped from overheating or was not installed properly. Is this true or simply bass player pseudo-science? I've also had this problem with brand new, unplayed neos and was wondering if the problem detailed here could also produce that click-click sound...
 
#15
not trying to beat a dead horse or re-hash something for the 15th time... I started looking at this thread and re-energized it because it seemed darn close to what's going on with my cab and speakers. if there is another more detailed thread throw me a lead!

I'm curious, though. is this a common issue? I just unpacked three new replacement neos and two are giving me the click-click on the cone push before I even install them...
 
#16
oreopithecus said:
I have the same problem with my neo 4x10. I've been told that if I gently move the cone and hear a clicking sound that the speaker is technically "blown," beecuase the coil is either warped from overheating or was not installed properly. Is this true or simply bass player pseudo-science? I've also had this problem with brand new, unplayed neos and was wondering if the problem detailed here could also produce that click-click sound...
Click to expand...

Hi oreopithecus.

In the case of cooked voice coils {or a speaker whose mounting screws have not been evenly snugged, causing a stamped speaker basket (they're more flexible than cast baskets) to shear slightly resulting in its voice coil making contact with the.., ah.., magnet, I believe, when it shouldn't}, gently and evenly pushing the speaker's cone in, and then allowing it to rebound, will produce a slight scrapping feel/sound.

The Eminence neo speaker noise problem described - and resolved - in this discussion thread, pertains some of Eminence's speakers having been manufactured with excessively long tinsel leads which make unwanted contact with the speaker's cone when it is driven into longer excursion during the reproduction of certain low notes at higher volumes.

This is not a problem specific to neodymium speakers per se.

And yes, pseudo-science would be one way of characterizing the notional flights-of-fancy exhibited by some of our more imaginative bass playing brethren. :hiding:

--------

Caveat: I'm not a tech but I have fried a few speakers. :bassist: :D
 
#17
oreopithecus said:
not trying to beat a dead horse or re-hash something for the 15th time... I started looking at this thread and re-energized it because it seemed darn close to what's going on with my cab and speakers. if there is another more detailed thread throw me a lead!

I'm curious, though. is this a common issue? I just unpacked three new replacement neos and two are giving me the click-click on the cone push before I even install them...
Click to expand...

Are you gently pushing the speaker cone in evenly (fingers & thumb applying even pressure 'round the edge of the dome-shaped dust cover in the center of the cone)?
 
#18
yep. I had a guy who does speaker repair show me how to do it and the sound to listen for. I just didn't expect to hear it out of the box, though, and was hoping the leads might be the issue instead of the coil. sounds like that might simply be a different type of bad buzz, however...

I like the speakers, the sound, the cab, and especially the weight of the cab. not trying to be negative.

also, I've had the lead problem with a non-neo speaker before, and i had it fixed. was a while back, before I started paying attention to the details.
 
#19
oreopithecus said:
yep. I had a guy who does speaker repair show me how to do it and the sound to listen for. I just didn't expect to hear it out of the box, though, and was hoping the leads might be the issue instead of the coil. sounds like that might simply be a different type of bad buzz, however...

I like the speakers, the sound, the cab, and especially the weight of the cab. not trying to be negative.

also, I've had the lead problem with a non-neo speaker before, and i had it fixed. was a while back, before I started paying attention to the details.
Click to expand...

So you've played through these suspect speakers? If so, how do they sound? Any anomalies?
 
#20
no. haven't played through the three new ones, just ye olde neos I'm replacing... I don't want to break the seal on these yet, so to speak. Using someone else's backline tonight so I'm OK for the moment.

I do know from past experience that whenever I hear that click-click sound on the cone push I also hear slight buzz anomalies when the speakers are at work, and the amount of buzz seems directly related to the amount of cone scrape from the coil on the push test.
 

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