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Entry into the bass amp world

Nic Olas

Nic Olas

Aug 11, 2023
23
45
60
East Kansas
#1
First time poster. I am a guitar player who has been playing over 40 years now and have decided to move to playing bass at least half the time simply because there are more gigs open to bass players and, quite frankly, I love grooving instead of playing leads all night.

That being said I have a PA that will handle vocals, even outside, but I am a little concerned about introducing the bass into it. So... I am looking for a bass amp that will carry my sound at mostly indoor gigs, but the occasional outside gig as well. I play mostly blues/rock stuff with some funk and fusion type jazz as well.

The caveat is that I don't want to break the bank in case I decide that playing bass half the time really isn't what I expected and go back to guitar, leaving a bass cabinet mostly sitting in the garage.

I've looked at the Hartke HD150 (played it also a t a local music shop) and on 2 it was pretty freaking loud. I have also looked online at the Rumble 100 V3 and the Ampeg RB-112 Rocket Bass amp.

Anyone think these would fill my need? I know they all have direct out which if I "did" have to connect to the FOH I could.

Oh, and my bass is Fender J-Bass.

Again, I really don't want to invest a TON of cash until it looks like I am gigging more playing bass and feel the need to upgrade my bass gear.

Thanks for the input!
 
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#3
lug said:
Outdoors is a whole different animal on bass. I would not be comfortable with either of your choices (of course that depends on the rest of the band). Coming up with a budget will greatly help us help you.
Click to expand...
$600 would be my top limit, and that is pushing it. Outside playing is considerably less than inside playing (Kansas gets freaking sticky in the summer).
 
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#4
So close to a Fender Rumble 500 ($650). The Rumbles are probably the "best "bang for the buck" new amps going. Just rob one liquor store would get you there! (seriously, with it's a 350w amp that can go to 500 with an extention cabinet if needed later) Ampeg Rocket amps are worth a look too but I have no personal experience with that line, others like 'em.
 
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#6
Here's a 410 and a 300 watt head for roughly $500 before tax

Screenshot_20230815-132415-936.png
 
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#9
Can you barrow a bass amp to gain some perspective on how much volume you need?

I own a GK 700RB/112 combo. I bought this amp years ago because it's the best option I could find that would slip into the trunk of my Dodge Neon.

The 700RB makes 225W into the internal speaker. I found that it was just barely loud enough to play with cover bands. No one complained, but I always felt like I was right on the edge, and I found it very frustrating. The amp makes 380W into 4 ohms, so I started bringing along one of my old extension cabs. I wouldn't say the sound quality was the best because the cabs were not very well matched, but it was plenty loud.

Regarding volume.
Don't focus on power. Power alone does not give you high SPL. You also need to consider the sensitivity rating of the cab.

Generally doubling the power gives you a 3dB change; assuming the speaker can handle the extra power. So if you increase the power from 100W to 200W you get +3dB.

So let's assume you have two speakers. Cab A has a sensitivity rating of 100dB 1W/1m and Cab B has a sensitivity rating of 97dB 1W/1m

This means you need twice as much power to push cab B to the same volume as Cab A.

1W into cab A = 100dB_______2W into cab B = 100dB
100W into cab A = 120dB_____200W into cab B = 120dB
400W into cab A = 126dB _____800W into cab B = 126dB​

If you know the 1W/1m sensitivity rating of the cab, you can use this formula:

Calculated SPL = [Log(Usable Power) x 10] + Sensitivity Rating

Where:
Usable Power is the minimum between how much power the amp is rated for at the speaker's impedance and how much power the speaker can handle​

For example Cab A with 100W:

Calculated SPL = [Log(100) x 10] + 100 = 120dB​

It's also helpful to know what happens when you add a matching cab. Usually hooking up an extra cab is a parallel connection. This means impedance is cut in half, the power handling doubles, and the sensitivity rating goes up +3dB when the cabs are stacked together.

So if you have an 8 ohm speaker that has a 200W RMS power rating and a 97dB 1W/1m sensitivity rating, adding a matching cab results in:

-Combined Impedance 8/2 = 4 ohms
-Combined Power Handling 200 x 2 = 400W
-Combined Sensitivity 97 + 3 = 100dB 1W/1m​

Most solid state amps make more power at 4 ohms than 8 ohms. Check the specs and the difference may be as much as 2 times.

Let's assume an amp that is rated 100W at 8 ohms and 200W at 4 ohms

Calculated SPL with one cab at 8 ohms total = [Log(100) x 10] + 97 = 117dB
Calculated SPL with two cabs 4 ohms total = [Log(200) x 10] + 100 = 123dB​

Let's assume an amp that is rated 100W at 8 ohms and 150W at 4 ohms

Calculated SPL with one cab at 8 ohms total = [Log(100) x 10] + 97 = 117dB
Calculated SPL with two cabs 4 ohms total = [Log(150) x 10] + 100 = 122dB
​
One final thing to consider is the Fletcher Munson Curve. The curve graphs apparent loudness versus actual loudness. The point is your ears are less sensitive to low frequencies...so low frequencies have to be louder for equal perceived volume. This is one of the reasons why bass typically requires more power than guitar. The other factor is guitar speakers tend to be more efficient than bass speakers.
 
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#11
Nic Olas said:
I am looking for a bass amp that will carry my sound at mostly indoor gigs, but the occasional outside gig as well...

I have a PA that will handle vocals, even outside, but I am a little concerned about introducing the bass into it.
Click to expand...

Nic Olas said:
$600 would be my top limit, and that is pushing it.
Click to expand...

Nic Olas said:
They are also much heavier than what I am looking for. I am not 30 something anymore! LOL!
Click to expand...

upload_2023-8-15_16-20-12.jpeg
 
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#14
Don't know what your PA is-I know a guy that uses a Rumble 100 for a stage monitor and lets his PA cover the front.....might be cost effective to add a sub to your PA to reliably handle bass. How many in your group?
 
#18
john hennessy said:
If you typically use your own PA, buy a sub and a preamp pedal and call it a day. The sub will still be useful for your PA if your interest in bass dwindles, and a Sansamp/MXR/etc DI into PA has gotten the job done for plenty of gigging bassists for a while now
Click to expand...
This, yes sir. I was gonna say if he has an HX stomp or something already for guitar. Build a sick bass preset. Use a di. Done. PA w/sub. If he’s got in ears. Even better!
 
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#19
So for those suggesting running into my PA, I have two Harbinger MLS1000 column speakers with 10” subs. The vocals sound incredible through it but once you start introducing instruments the vocals get lost. I run my guitar rig (Quilters) direct, no stage amp and love that but feel like the bass will destroy the overall mix.
No I’m not buying a new FOH system which is why I’m inquiring about a stage bass amp that has the balls to handle normal gigs this freeing up the PA for vocals. Bass amp is considerably cheaper than a new PA. If, sensibly, spending more is the only REAL solution, then that is what I will end up doing. But it seems to me, from experience with other bassists who still use stage amps in the 200w range, they were overkill at most of the medium clubs we play.
 
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#20
Nic Olas said:
First time poster. I am a guitar player who has been playing over 40 years now and have decided to move to playing bass at least half the time simply because there are more gigs open to bass players and, quite frankly, I love grooving instead of playing leads all night.

That being said I have a PA that will handle vocals, even outside, but I am a little concerned about introducing the bass into it. So... I am looking for a bass amp that will carry my sound at mostly indoor gigs, but the occasional outside gig as well. I play mostly blues/rock stuff with some funk and fusion type jazz as well.

The caveat is that I don't want to break the bank in case I decide that playing bass half the time really isn't what I expected and go back to guitar, leaving a bass cabinet mostly sitting in the garage.

I've looked at the Hartke HD150 (played it also a t a local music shop) and on 2 it was pretty freaking loud. I have also looked online at the Rumble 100 V3 and the Ampeg RB-112 Rocket Bass amp.

Anyone think these would fill my need? I know they all have direct out which if I "did" have to connect to the FOH I could.

Oh, and my bass is Fender J-Bass.

Again, I really don't want to invest a TON of cash until it looks like I am gigging more playing bass and feel the need to upgrade my bass gear.

Thanks for the input!
Click to expand...
Outside is the most challenging oddly enough I have found my small Bag end 15 works great outside. I would look for a used 15 and today all kinds of great GK heads that are 20 years old are inexpensive like an RB400
 
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