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Epi EB-0 sidewinder sound vs EB-3

jumblemind

I also answer to Bryan
Aug 27, 2011
2,981
1,293
Knoxville
I recently picked up a set of pups on ebay that were labeled as vintage thunderbird bass pickups but are clearly newer EB-3 pups. They were cheap enough and I thought they might go well in my Epiphone EB-0, so I grabbed them.

The Epi EB-0 has the classic mudbucker sidewinder design, but as you may know it measures a meager 1.2k unlike the old ones and a lot of the replacements. The neck pup I just bought measures a more respectable 9.6k, but it's not a sidewinder at all.

EB-pups_zpsb04f782d.jpg


So my question is, how similar do these two pickups sound? I dig the EB-O's muddy tone for certain uses, but a better output would be appreciated. I can just drop in this one and see for myself, but it will take some work to make it fit in the old spot, and I figured others may have tried them out before.
 
Keep us posted. My ' 65 Rivoli has an original mudbucker with huge output and low end . My EBO already had a Di Marzio Model One , which I love in that bass.

I understand the Model One was basically made for that, and I had considered it at one point. Not worth it for a $200 new bass, though, and I really like the deep, wooly low end for the particular use I have.

I got to put the "new" pup in, just required a double stack of foam since it's a bit shorter than the sidewinder. It's a noticeable improvement. Still has the warmth of the huge low end and rolled off highs but with much better output and a touch more clarity. I also have an old Rio Grande jazz bridge pup in the bass now, hooked with a 3-way toggle switch and a VVT wiring. With the stock EB-0 pup having this was necessary for playing with a band and having any kind of note definition. Bass sounds great with just the new pup solo'd now. I will definitely throw in its counterpart when I get some free weekend time.
 
The Epi EB-0 has the classic mudbucker sidewinder design, but as you may know it measures a meager 1.2k unlike the old ones and a lot of the replacements.

Are you sure about that 1.2k? That's beyond low, beyond way low. Was your meter set on the 200k scale? The Gibson versions measure about 30k, and taking readings using the 20k scale will give incorrect results.
 
Are you sure about that 1.2k? That's beyond low, beyond way low. Was your meter set on the 200k scale? The Gibson versions measure about 30k, and taking readings using the 20k scale will give incorrect results.
Yes, as crazy as it sounds, that's what it is. No idea why, but it's the same on all these Epiphone EB's if you read through other threads on it.
 
This pickups looks and sounds a lot like some pickups I came across 6-7 years ago. We were putting these in some custom basses for the namm show and the time crunch made it impossible to get passive pots etc to work right. We went with a bart one instead. A shame, as it had a massive tone. Don't let the low resistance put you off, I'm guessing it is wound with a lower guage (thicker) wire. Huge gnarley midrange. I kept one and when I got back to Australia, I used it in Link Removed. I think our no-hole covers were a custom order. This blue bass was active, so I never had to find the right pots for passive operation. You may have to experiment a little to get 1.2k and 9.6k pickups to play nicely together...
 
The Epi EB-0 has the classic mudbucker sidewinder design, but as you may know it measures a meager 1.2k unlike the old ones and a lot of the replacements. The neck pup I just bought measures a more respectable 9.6k, but it's not a sidewinder at all.

The Pickup "You just bought" is a Gibson TBPlus. Used in the SG, the EB-11 and the Midtown. Strange design with its aluminum plate and the fake pole screws. Tons of musically unimportant ultra deep bass, nice treble end but severe lack of lower mids and hence no punch.

Removing this aluminum spacer will give the PU a bit more clarity and more punch. Not much different to a DiMarzio model one. Not surprising - ceramic magnets and identical aperture. It is easy to turn this into a sidewinder - just use a steel blade and turn the (Mini-) humbucker coils toward it. I would experiment with the thickness. At present i am using a 4 mm blade of 1 cm height (rest of an experiment to mod an Epi sidewinder), but a thicker, possibly laminated blade might also be worth a try.

Against common belief, sidewinders do not sound muddy per se - the Gibson only does because it is strongly overwound.

The Epi sidewinder is indeed 1.2 kOhm. That is not "meager" - it is a low impedance design (lots of thick wire on the bobbins). The output of the PU is actually quite high (i measured peaks up to 4 Volts), and due to the low impedance it can be surprisingly bright. Biggest disadvantages:

a) lack of deep bass. So much that the bass sounds thin. . Solution: remove the pole screws and add a steel bar 6x6 mm (1/4" x 1/4"). Even better a few stripes of thinner material isolated from each other (nail polish...) This will increase the inductivity, and the lamination will reduce eddy currents and thus yield a stronger resonance. Quite interestingly also the treble response will be improved.

b) In an EB-3, the low impedance will overdamp the bridge PU if both are run in parallel. You might want to use a decoupling resistor in position 2 of the PU selector switch (of the Epi EB-3). You might want to add something close to 6.8 nF in parallel (switchable) in order to obtain a sound really close to Jack Bruces.

So my question is, how similar do these two pickups sound? I dig the EB-O's muddy tone for certain uses, but a better output would be appreciated.

It will open up a lot by the simple mod i just described. The TBPlus sounds more modern, pronounced lack of lower mids, pretty much highs, but very strong deep lows. Not good in band context, and You need a lot of amp power just to handle these musically irrelevant extreme lows. Turning it into a sidewinder will improve this and yield a much more balanced tone and also more attack.

Yes, i can well imagine this TBPlus with sidewinder mod in an Epi EB-0. Should sound really nice. Number two the modified original pickup. Nice as well, not quite as bright. To me there is no number three and for.
The sidewinder mod will also reduce the output of the pickup and balance it a lot better with the bridge PU.

BTW: i would mount the bridge PU in MM position - 10% of the scale length from the bridge with pole screws toward the *neck*. Actually i did that in an Epi EB-0 and modified an Epi EB-3 accordingly.
 

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