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Epifani is gaining weight...

Vic

There's more music in the nuance than the notes.
Supporting Member
Oct 14, 2002
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Central Illinois
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Staff, Bass Gear Magazine
I imagine this will be a "no big deal" to at least most folks, but I recently learned about some changes Epfiani is making to their product line that I'd like to pass on.

I recently got a brand new S2 UL410 and when unpacking it, I noticed right away it was heavier than my current one... not a lot, but definitely noticeable.

Two things have happened... their supply of the really light wood is gone, and they've had to change their internal dampening material to meet European environmental standards.

What this translated to on the 410 is about 9 pounds, so now this cab will come in around 66 pounds instead of 57. Of course these changes mean even less weight gain in the smaller cabs, but of course more for the 610, but I'm guessing that cab doesn't sell nearly as much as the 410 and below.

An interesting side note is they also changed to a much sturdier grill material... more like what Eden uses. I'm sure this added a little weight too, but probably not much compared to the wood and dampening material.

To my ears, the cab sounds exactly the same despite the material changes (not to suggest it should, just noting it didn't as far as I can tell). That's a good thing, IMHO, since this cab remains my current favorite bass cab.

To put an editorial spin on this (tho hopefully not start an advocacy war)...

Now, as I recall, the UL410 weighs exactly the same as the new Berg AE410, and the UL410 is of course also bigger. Without the lower weight it used to have compared to the AE410, the AE410 now becomes the categorical winner in 410 portability since it's smaller and no longer weighs more. They still sound very different, and tone should always come first when selecting gear, but at this point, Epifani has permanently lost the weight advantage over all other 410 cabs. In short, there's a new king of the hill in 410 portability, and his name is Bergantino.
 
Per our PM's, this is not a good thing.

First, they went from the wonderful B&C drivers to the Eminence (I guess not necessarily worse, and the SII cabs sound great... but IMO some of the 'magic' was lost). Now, heavier wood.

I would suggest that Nick and the boys be a little careful with their high end product line. They were the only lighweight game in town for a LONG time. Now is not the time to take your eye off the ball IMO:hmm:
 
FWIW, Ken and I agree on a lot of things, but at least specifically to the UL410, I still like the sound of the S2 better than the S1 (tho I'll never deny the S1 will always cut a mix better). So the driver change is only a negative subjectively. I think the only non-subjective negative is the weight gain.

Also, to put things in perspective a bit, I want to make sure nobody takes this as an "alarm" thread. This is an FYI thread. I'm (again) figuring the majority of folks will consider a 9 pound gain on a 410 to be not that big of a deal. It mattered to me, but I consider myself to be in the minority of people especially sensitive to gear weight.

This does, however, mean that the AE410 is back on my radar, but I still remain extremely happy with my S2 UL410, so the GAS (thankfully) isn't that strong. :)
 
Interesting. It does seem like a bit of a step back. It's hard to say what their goals are though. As more and more lightweight options are becoming common, I wonder if weight will cease to become a factor at all. Saving 30-40 lbs was huge. Saving 10 or so isn't, so maybe you add a bit of weight back into the cabinet in order to get costs down (or supply-chain issues under control) and still retain a competitive advantage. Pure speculation on my part. A lot of people chose Epifani in the past largely because of the weight advantage. With that advantage disappearing more every day, Epifani could be gearing up to compete more on price.
 
FWIW, Ken and I agree on a lot of things, but at least specifically to the UL410, I still like the sound of the S2 better than the S1 (tho I'll never deny the S1 will always cut a mix better). So the driver change is only a negative subjectively. I think the only non-subjective negative is the weight gain.

Also, to put things in perspective a bit, I want to make sure nobody takes this as an "alarm" thread. This is an FYI thread. I'm (again) figuring the majority of folks will consider a 6 pound gain on a 410 to be not that big of a deal. It mattered to me, but I consider myself to be in the minority of people especially sensitive to gear weight.

This does, however, mean that the AE410 is back on my radar, but I still remain extremely happy with my S2 UL410, so the GAS (thankfully) isn't that strong. :)

+1... but it's a slippery slope here IMO. Ignore the 410UL... does ANYONE like the 210UL(II) or the 310UL(II) better than the B&C loaded Series I's:confused: I would doubt it.

I'm a BIG Epi fan, and have used their cabs almost exclusively since the early 90's.... but man:confused:
 
+1... but it's a slippery slope here IMO. Ignore the 410UL... does ANYONE like the 210UL(II) or the 310UL(II) better than the B&C loaded Series I's:confused: I would doubt it.
Very good point, because at least for me, the 410 is the only cab that sounded better to me after the change. IMHO, all the other cabs needed that extra mid peak to work best.
 
Well then, for me this is just another reason to never get rid of my UL410S1. A 9 pound weight gain is a BIG deal to me. I am barely able to wrestle this cab up and down the stairs (3) to my garage. I'm definitely a 'special needs kid' but I selected this cab, not because I'm into the squeeky clean tone, but into the size vs. weight vs. big sound factor. I grew to love the smooth sound of this cab and the great low end it effortlessly produces. As a one-cab solution, it is phenomenal! For me, the extra depth means more room to stack stuff as I roll the whole mess in the venue in one trip.

Thank you, thank you very much....
Alan

:hyper:
 
All this fuss over 9 pounds?

When you are starting out with a small box at 40 pounds or so, I agree, the additional weight isn't a killer. When you are starting out with a large box close to 60 pounds, which is kind of a 'magic threshold' for someone of average size to be able to schlep it easily up and down stairs, adding what is basically a 10 pound weight set on top of the cab is a bummer, especially if the name of the cab is 'Ultra Light':D
 
Ignore the 410UL... does ANYONE like the 210UL(II) or the 310UL(II) better than the B&C loaded Series I's:confused: I would doubt it.

Exactly! Also, let's look at one more factor with the 310UL's...if the new S2's are gonna be more heavy, it's weight moves closer to that of the AE410. The AE410 is already close in portability to the 310UL based on size (actually the AE410 is MORE portable for me and others with sedans, because it's depth allows it to fit into a large trunk while the 310UL will not). But let's say that the 310UL gets 7 or 8 lbs. heavier - I can see alot less people buying it when it is very close in weight to the AE410 which has an extra driver and is equally (or more) portable!
 
When you are starting out with a small box at 40 pounds or so, I agree, the additional weight isn't a killer. When you are starting out with a large box close to 60 pounds, which is kind of a 'magic threshold' for someone of average size to be able to schlep it easily up and down stairs, adding what is basically a 10 pound weight set on top of the cab is a bummer, especially if the name of the cab is 'Ultra Light':D

Ken,

I understand, I have major neck, shoulder and arm issues and a few pounds here or there can help. But it just seems this will cause negative press for Epi again and it has not been publically explained yet by them. I would have to guess there is some real reason why they did what they did and I won't let 9 pounds sway me until they officially explain it.

Mike
 
I would have to guess there is some real reason why they did what they did and I won't let 9 pounds sway me until they offically explain it.

Vic already explained the reason in his original post, and it sounds like it was out of their control.

Two things have happened... their supply of the really light wood is gone, and they've had to change their internal dampening material to meet European standards.

Here's one thing I'll note regarding the lightweight wood. I was at LDS a week ago and Don had just completed building a 410 cab that came in at 55 lbs - he said he was using a different supplier. The cab sounded really good!
 
KJung,

I understand, I have major neck, shoulder and arm issues and a few pounds here or there can help. But it just seems this will cause negative press for Epi again and it has not been publically explained yet by them. I would have to guess there is some real reason why they did what they did and I won't let 9 pounds sway me until they officially explain it.

Mike

+1... TB is for exchanging opinions and new information. This is new information obtained by a TBer directly from Epifani.

Since I regularly recommend these wonderful cabs to those looking for a full, modern pop/funk/jazz tone in a lightweight package, I try to stay up (and make public) issues such as this.


Quite frankly, I would be bummed if I recommended a 56 pound cab to someone, and it was 66 pounds when they got it:hmm: