Epifani is gaining weight...

[deBont Amps]

Thats not strictly true.

I'm in the UK, and looking to get some Berg AE goodness from Invalid Link Removed, which is based in the UK, which is part of Europe (last time I was told what to think by the European gov anyway )

Cool! I didn't know they sold Berg in the UK. But according to the Berg website, the UK is the only country in Europe they ship to. That's kinda odd. Maybe they fould a loophole
Or perhaps Berg will have to add some weight in the near future as well.

 

[KJung]

Cool! I didn't know they sold Berg in the UK. But according to the Berg website, the UK is the only country in Europe they ship to. That's kinda odd. Maybe they fould a loophole
Or perhaps Berg will have to add some weight in the near future as well.

With large, lightweight neo cabs, the wood is the primary driver of weight. The lightweight neo speakers obviously contribute, but the major contribution is that you can use a lightweight baffle board, since you don't need all that thickness and strength with the lighter weight drivers, and as a result, you can also use lighter wood all around. Even with the additional bracing to stiffen the cab, the light wood is the lion's share of the weight reduction. This is why just replacing the ceramic drivers with neo's in a 'standard' cab is so disappointing with regards to weight reduction.

Jim's AE410 is quite a bit heavier than the original 410UL due (I believe) to Jim using 'standard' wood cut thinner to reduce weight, versus the ultra light wood that Epifani was using. If Epi lost their source for that ultra light poplar, this would easily add a significant amount of weight to the cab.

My guess is, the damping material is a trivial portion of the weight formula.

 

[Vic]

On-topic somewhat, it's why I admire Vic's massive rig pic so much. Talk about overkill !!
...
I use a B500 (five hundred, not a typo) into two large cabs, a 6x10 and a 4x10 + 1x15, a few times per week and even that can easily get extremely, and far too, loud. I'm not sure I could even stand in front of the rig if the B1500 were hooked-up to it without being *very* careful with the volume knob, and same goes for Vic's rig. He's very tough, very crazy, very deaf, or some combination of the three !

You probably missed my posts on this, but one of those cabs isn't mine. It's only with me for a little while "in-transit". I also mentioned that, even though I took it on one gig, I couldn't push it AT ALL. I was only able to turn it up once in sound check, just to see what it could do. Well suffices to say the light fixtures all needed to be re-tightened.

Yeah, those Epi 410's are SO efficient, I will never ever need more than the one.

 

[Vic]

My guess is, the damping material is a trivial portion of the weight formula.

The guy on the phone felt otherwise. He believed it was as much as a 5 pound increase all by itself. It's not as thick as fiberglass, but it's much denser. I can believe it... especially for that much of it (there's quite a bit in a 410). It's like a thick blanket.

 

[joelb79]

Here's a rig to be reckoned with... 2 ohms, 1900W, Epifani punch and clarity. Guitar players, run, run for your lives...

Turn it up! I still cant hear you up here in the mitten.

 

[KJung]

The guy on the phone felt otherwise. He believed it was as much as a 5 pound increase all by itself. It's not as thick as fiberglass, but it's much denser. I can believe it... especially for that much of it (there's quite a bit in a 410). It's like a thick blanket.

Something not quyite right then... if it's 5 pounds for the increase in damping material, then the wood change increase would be trivial.

I've learned that the info coming out of the Epi office at this point (both on the site and when talking to anyone that isn't Nick) is quite 'loose'... not sure what is going on over there.

When I got my 502 and was kind of shocked at the loud 'boom' that occured when plugging and unplugging a bass without having the mute engaged, I got the following info from three different people in the office over a short period of time:

1)... I don't know what you are talking about... this doesn't happen

2).... it's part of the design due to the input jacks not being grounded to the chassis for better DI sound'

and...

3).... this issue has been 'fixed' in the new PS line that is due out in the Fall.


Interesting.......

 

[Vic]

Something not quyite right then... if it's 5 pounds for the increase in damping material, then the wood change increase would be trivial.
...
I've learned that the info coming out of the Epi office at this point (both on the site and when talking to anyone that isn't Nick) is quite 'loose'... not sure what is going on over there.
...
Interesting.......

+1, but it's pretty much moot, 'cause it is what it is, and whether we know the real breakdown or not, doesn't really matter. The cabs are a little heavier these days due to material changes, and I have physical proof in my hands right now, so it seems pretty accurate at least one way or another.

 

[KJung]

+1, but it's pretty much moot, 'cause it is what it is, and whether we know the real breakdown or not, doesn't really matter. The cabs are a little heavier these days due to material changes, and I have physical proof in my hands right now, so it seems pretty accurate at least one way or another.

+1... just commenting on the posts above, and more on the somewhat strange 'explanation' given for the weight increase IMO. I agree with you, as long as they revise the weight spec on the site, on their marketing material, and also clearly communicate these changes to retailers like Musician's Friend, so that the customer knows what he or she is getting, it's a relatively minor issue for many.

 

[vision]

Something not quyite right then... if it's 5 pounds for the increase in damping material, then the wood change increase would be trivial.

It actually does make sense to me...Epifani may have lost their original source for lightweight poplar, but I'm sure that whatever they are using now is still very lightweight. So the difference between those two woods may be minimal while there is around a 5 pound difference in the damping material. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, Don from LDS just built a 55 pound 4x10 using what I believe is a domestic source for wood, so there are definitely other lightweight options out there. It wouldn't make sense for Epi to go to a wood source that is significantly heavier. The damping material thing however, is pretty much out of their control if they want to sell their cabs in Europe.

 

[Vic]

... as long as they revise the weight spec on the site, on their marketing material, and also clearly communicate these changes to retailers like Musician's Friend, so that the customer knows what he or she is getting, it's a relatively minor issue for many.

Well, from what I seem to be reading in some posts here, sadly, we might not want to hold our breath on these...

Thus my thread creation, per our PMs, of course.

I know there are some sour notes aired here with some posters in this thread, and I expected it, but at least I'm still a big fan of the products.

 

[tombowlus]

Jim's AE410 is quite a bit heavier than the original 410UL due (I believe) to Jim using 'standard' wood cut thinner to reduce weight, versus the ultra light wood that Epifani was using. If Epi lost their source for that ultra light poplar, this would easily add a significant amount of weight to the cab.

I think that is correct. I have spoken with Jim about this, and he is very much a fan of high-grade, void-free baltic birch ply for his cabs.

Tom.

 

[KJung]

It actually does make sense to me...Epifani may have lost their original source for lightweight poplar, but I'm sure that whatever they are using now is still very lightweight. So the difference between those two woods may be minimal while there is around a 5 pound difference in the damping material. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, Don from LDS just built a 55 pound 4x10 using what I believe is a domestic source for wood, so there are definitely other lightweight options out there. It wouldn't make sense for Epi to go to a wood source that is significantly heavier. The damping material thing however, is pretty much out of their control if they want to sell their cabs in Europe.

+1... who knows. I know from spending time with Don that his 'ultra lightweight' plywood is WAY lighter than his regular lightweight stuff, and that he also has a limited supply that is expensive. He used the ultra light wood in my 112, and it's paper-light!!!! Again, no big deal, but I haven't experienced 'really light wood' and then 'kind of almost really light wood'. It's either the flyweight stuff or the regular stuff that I've experienced, or a hybrid approach per Tom's post above.... 'regular wood cut thinner to reduce weight'.

Anyway.... it's more a communication thing on honest weight spec's that we are talking about. I don't care if they use pressed pickles as damping material... but if I buy a large cab that is at the edge of my 'weight limit' and it shows up almost 10 pounds heavier than promised, let me tell you that cab would be going back and there would be a 'classic Ken Jung pissed off thread' that would pop up like a daisy in Spring after a rain shower

 

[Petebass]

This is why just replacing the ceramic drivers with neo's in a 'standard' cab is so disappointing with regards to weight reduction..

I suspect the Eden Neo's will fall into this category too when they're eventually released. I'm hoping they redesign the entire box rather than just swap out ferrite speakers for neo's. There's a lot of wood (weight) in those XLT cabs...........

 

[Saluki]

Please do.

On-topic somewhat, it's why I admire Vic's massive rig pic so much. Talk about overkill !!

I use a B500 (five hundred, not a typo) into two large cabs, a 6x10 and a 4x10 + 1x15, a few times per week and even that can easily get extremely, and far too, loud. I'm not sure I could even stand in front of the rig if the B1500 were hooked-up to it without being *very* careful with the volume knob, and same goes for Vic's rig. He's very tough, very crazy, very deaf, or some combination of the three !

It just makes for more efficient stage dancing for Vic. He gets moved around with each bass note he hits from all the air that rig is moving. Now thats groovin'

 

[Saluki]

Man after reading all this whining about weight I thought I was on Talkguitard or something. I carry a UL410 in each hand, my amp bag around my neck and two basses with my teeth, while the guitar player watches and the drummer carries one cymbal at a time. Seriously, we are bass players and holding down the low end is sometimes heavy (deep philosophical thought there). And in case anyone doesn't get that I was kidding about all the above, you should know, I carry around a 47 pound UL310 and 7pound markbass LMII. I like the Lightweight stuff and I am a bit on the burly side. When I try to weigh my UL310 using the with and without method all I get is --- on the scale so what I am I doing wrong?

 

[ellisv]

Weight is a HUGE issue for me in the decision making process.

Any body selling a ul410 series II at 57lbs?? or the UL112 Series II at 31lbs?

 

[::::BASSIST::::]

I just bought a used S1 UL112. Phew! I'm covered. I'll never sell it know that it will be quite difficult to get as light.

 

[Steve Clark]

I just bought a used S1 UL112. Phew! I'm covered. I'll never sell it know that it will be quite difficult to get as light.

I have one as well. I think you'll be very happy with it. I use it more than my UL310 these days.