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I will just say if you set IEM mix to a DSP input setting which you would use for wedges you are going to have one poor sounding mix in your head. I agree compression isn't a good thing but it can be less obvious in an IEM mix vs a wedge. You could always use a Y splitter on any compressed channel and send it into a non-compressed channel as well. Do the same with the guiatr channel.I like the layered idea if you have the channels. I gave up on the X18 air and went to DL32r recently. If I were to do that layering I could use the scene setting (not the actual term) and create a FOH scene that had those channels then each IEM mix could be set up with the second layer of channels for them. Thus no chance of messing up your mix by accident.
Just fix the guitar. Sounds like he's EQ'ed wrong anyway. There's a "science" to fitting people into the mix. Everything has it's "slot" in the frequency range. Start there.
You may be able to eq your entire IEM mix, but probably not each individual channel feeding that mix - unless you have a lot of gear or a really nice board.
You may be able to eq your entire IEM mix, but probably not each individual channel feeding that mix - unless you have a lot of gear or a really nice board.
wow, yeah:
(from the website) "They can not only adjust the Volume for each of 16 input signals, but also set the Pan (left to right mix), EQ (Bass, Mid with sweepable Freq control and Treble) – and much more. And the best part, these adjustments can all be made without affecting anyone else’s personal mix."
now i'm imagining a next-gen P16M where it's just a little "black box" dongle that takes the cat-5 cable from the mixer, puts out the L-R monitor line signal, and does bluetooth to your phone/tablet to run it.
no physical buttons/lights/displays would mean probably cheaper to make, and having it do bluetooth for each player avoids loading up the main wi-fi router, as well as guaranteeing the players' tablets can't interfere with the FOH mix.
no physical buttons/lights/displays would mean probably cheaper to make, and having it do bluetooth for each player avoids loading up the main wi-fi router, as well as guaranteeing the players' tablets can't interfere with the FOH mix.
Very cool idea. I bet it would make it easier to expand to 24 or even 32 tracks. 16 is a bit cramped.
s0c9
Supporting Member
Sounds cool.. however, latency in bluetooth prevents live audio use.... They've been working on it, but not conquered the challenge for IEM use yet.
I believe he intended Bluetooth for control only...no audio would pass over Bluetooth.
s0c9
Supporting Member
ah, they joys of misinterpreting the written word.. even with the best of intentions
I think wifi makes more sense. Better range and bandwidth. Plus anyone with an X32 probably already has it set up anyway.
i'm just imagining this future P16M as a little black box with the cat 5 in (maybe cat 5 thru) and 2 XLR or even TRS out for the audio, with the bluetooth internal. it would sit close to the player so BT would have sufficient range, and isn't BT cheaper and smaller to put in a device than wi-fi?
I meant wifi for the mix controller. If you've used X32-Q or Mix Station Pro, you are probably familiar with this setup. This is control flow only. I really like the idea of the P16M being just a connection station with CAT-5E input, balanced L&R outputs, and stereo phones out. I think it should still have a HW limiter and output level controls on the device. What would be really cool is the ability to store mixes on your phone or tablet and change them as needed. This would be helpful when say monitoring a light ballad versus a heavy rock tune. It would also be helpful to load someone else'e mix. That way you could help a bandmate set up the perfect mix. Plus, if you have a monitor engineer, he or she can finally listen to your personal monitor mix and maybe adjust it for you.
s0c9
Supporting Member
I gave this a little more thought. You are right, it should be a bluetooth connection.
I thought the P16M HAD a limiter.. my 2 do.. and so do those I use at church !!
It does. I was suggesting that the device @walterw described should have a hardware limiter and output level built into the black box.
s0c9
Supporting Member
Or both. I thought the original intent with proposing bluetooth control was to prevent conflicts and exceeding the bandwidth limits of WiFi. That way FOH WiFi functionality is less likely to be compromised.
What occurred to me was that the controller, i.e. a smart phone, would likely be only a few feet from the P16B. (My name for the black box version.) Having the phone talk directly to the unit means you don't have to have firmware on the X32 to communicate to the device. The X32 just needs to provide the digital audio stream as it does now. I bet you could add 8 more channels, have multiple mixes saved, including DCAs and sub-groups, and still offer it for well under the cost of a P16M. I suspect the P16M was designed for church use. It needed to be usable by non-technical people and still offer a lot of functionality. I think they did a good job. Now more people are used to using their smartphones for these types of things.
i'm glad we've all reached a consensus on the feature set for my entirely imaginary X-series peripheral 
There is no shortcut to good IEM mixes. It takes time, experience, experimenting and money.
1. Have the source sound down. Too much low end? Lose it. Not bright enough? Adjust treble / change the mic. Etc.
2. Invest in a quality IEM system. More money buys you better S/N-ratio and more available frequencies. Preferably same make and model for everybody in the band, to make EQ'ing easier, and ease frequency coordination.
3. Invest in a set of mics (everything needs to be miked), and a mixing desk for monitors only (you will need a lot of channels, and no, the FOH desk most likely cannot supply your mixes because the requirements of FOH and MON differ fundamentally). Also, a splitter system to feed your unprocessed raw mic signals to FOH would be handy.
4. Every band member gets their own dedicated mix. "More me -boxes" usually cause more trouble than they solve. Mono/stereo is up to preference.
5. Tune the response of every set of earbuds via the master EQ of respective mix send. Spend time, cut sharply away any frequencies that cause mud/honk/mess. Use a good record source for reference. All buds sound different, and every set of ears is different.
6a. Set up mixes. Pay attention to clashing instruments. Adjust source sound, mics, input channel EQ, pan etc to make it all mesh.
6b. If any signal needs to split due to differing tastes in it's EQing or processing, split the channel internally.
6c. Split all vocal inputs. Give each singer a dynamically-unprocessed (that is, no compression or gating) version of their own voice in their mix. Others get the processed version, so the singer's "unexpected excitement" does not rip the bandmates' ears apart.
7. Re-adjust mix send master EQ's
8. Re-adjust each mix.
9. Repeat 6-8 until happy.
10. If you fail to accomplish all of this, hire a quality soundperson to do this basic work for you, or better yet, hire him/her to do your sound at your shows.
11. Stop whining about carrying all of the needed gear around. Schepping the load around will make your playing better. And more enjoyable.
1. Have the source sound down. Too much low end? Lose it. Not bright enough? Adjust treble / change the mic. Etc.
2. Invest in a quality IEM system. More money buys you better S/N-ratio and more available frequencies. Preferably same make and model for everybody in the band, to make EQ'ing easier, and ease frequency coordination.
3. Invest in a set of mics (everything needs to be miked), and a mixing desk for monitors only (you will need a lot of channels, and no, the FOH desk most likely cannot supply your mixes because the requirements of FOH and MON differ fundamentally). Also, a splitter system to feed your unprocessed raw mic signals to FOH would be handy.
4. Every band member gets their own dedicated mix. "More me -boxes" usually cause more trouble than they solve. Mono/stereo is up to preference.
5. Tune the response of every set of earbuds via the master EQ of respective mix send. Spend time, cut sharply away any frequencies that cause mud/honk/mess. Use a good record source for reference. All buds sound different, and every set of ears is different.
6a. Set up mixes. Pay attention to clashing instruments. Adjust source sound, mics, input channel EQ, pan etc to make it all mesh.
6b. If any signal needs to split due to differing tastes in it's EQing or processing, split the channel internally.
6c. Split all vocal inputs. Give each singer a dynamically-unprocessed (that is, no compression or gating) version of their own voice in their mix. Others get the processed version, so the singer's "unexpected excitement" does not rip the bandmates' ears apart.
7. Re-adjust mix send master EQ's
8. Re-adjust each mix.
9. Repeat 6-8 until happy.
10. If you fail to accomplish all of this, hire a quality soundperson to do this basic work for you, or better yet, hire him/her to do your sound at your shows.
11. Stop whining about carrying all of the needed gear around. Schepping the load around will make your playing better. And more enjoyable.
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