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Double Bass Ergo Megathread part I

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Okay, I made the plunge and picked up an ergo four from Jesse. I think it is pretty nice for what I paid. He made this one in sunburst lacewood and it is gorgeous.

My myspace page (linked from my profile) has pictures if you want to see it.

Does anyone have any tips on getting a hybrid string to make that tight radius on the gotoh tuner? I just drew blood (literally) and threw $40 out the window at the same time trying to put on an obligato A. I decided to stop there, and see if I can figure something out before ruining the E too. I might try different tuners as I really want to have the same strings on my ergo as my double bass. Right now I have the obligato D & G on there, and the original A & E, it is kinda funny because the obligatos sound really nice, but put out half the volume at low frequencies than the strings it shipped with.

I bought the Ergo so I could have a quiet way to practice at night. I am a night owl, my girlfriend is not. I have a day job, and I tried my hardest to get up early, but I just can't get up an hour earlier to practice. I think it will be perfect for practicing most of the music I play (I play in a community orchestra, and I am learning jazz.) This thing is great for practicing arco unamplified--not loud enough to bother someone in the next room if they are trying to sleep, but loud enough to hear yourself.

Here are my impressions after playing it for a couple of hours:

The string height and spacings are very comparable to my double bass at the octave they were within a 1/16th of each other--I got lucky on this and I won't need to modify the bridge. The feel is natural for me, I don't have any more trouble with intonation on this than I do my normal bass.

My thumb sticks ever so slightly to the back of the neck, so when doing rapid shifts to different positions I will move the stand, lift the bass off the floor, or wiggle the bass around. Since there is no way to lean into a body it it is difficult to fix this problem. Maybe it is because the finish is still curing--I will give it a few days and if I still don't like it I will probably sand the back of the neck bare.

The position markers make me look at my hands, this is bad. (Nothing wrong with the bass, I just get distracted by them--instead of just trusting my ear like I should be doing.)

It is an "E" neck, not a "D" neck. Again, nothing wrong with that, but most 3/4 double basses are D necks. My brain is dealing with this with less trouble than I anticipated. The top of the neck is flat--so the reference point I use for half position doesn't exist.

By setting the cymbal stand with one leg facing directly forward, I can lean the bass back on the other two legs and rest the neck on my shoulder when I play in thumb position. It is the only way I could get enough pressure to use vibrato without destabilizing the bass. Doing it this way feels pretty natural--very similar to playing a double bass in thumb position.

The amplified sound is okay. I mean, I didn't expect it to sound like my carved bass--that would be naive. Pizzicato sounds very similar to a double bass with a practice mute on it, you know the type of mute I mean--a big piece of rubber that engulfs the bridge. The sound similarity makes sense because there is no body to resonate. Arco, doesn't sound too well in my opinion. It is very nasal and bright, this is because of the piezo pickups--I just don't care for the sound of piezo pickups played arco--nothing wrong with the design, I don't like the $200 fishman piezo pickups either. I don't know if there is any way to fit a gage realist to this thing, I wonder how it would sound then . . .
 
My thumb sticks ever so slightly to the back of the neck, so when doing rapid shifts to different positions I will move the stand, lift the bass off the floor, or wiggle the bass around. Since there is no way to lean into a body it it is difficult to fix this problem. Maybe it is because the finish is still curing--I will give it a few days and if I still don't like it I will probably sand the back of the neck bare.

I have a new Ergo 4 string and also have this issue. I've been using a spray called Fret Ease that the music store sold me. I'm still having the issue to varying degrees. It seems that the neck picks up grime from the air and gets sticky, especially the stock strings. I keep the rag I used to clean it close by and frequently give it a rub while I'm playing to keep it slippery. I assumed I have naturally dirty hands too because I have similar problems on my URB. I sanded the neck on my URB to combat the sticky feeling but I wish I hadn't because it's developing fine cracks in the neck now only one year later.

Arco, doesn't sound too well in my opinion. It is very nasal and bright, this is because of the piezo pickups--I just don't care for the sound of piezo pickups played arco--nothing wrong with the design, I don't like the $200 fishman piezo pickups either. I don't know if there is any way to fit a gage realist to this thing, I wonder how it would sound then . . .

By itself arco playing sounded too bright to me also so I bought a K&K pure preamp and adjusted the tone to my liking and now it sounds so much nicer.
 
The amplified sound is okay. I mean, I didn't expect it to sound like my carved bass--that would be naive. Pizzicato sounds very similar to a double bass with a practice mute on it, you know the type of mute I mean--a big piece of rubber that engulfs the bridge. The sound similarity makes sense because there is no body to resonate.

TG- see some of the other posts here in the megathread about improving the sound of the out-of-the-box Ergo. The piezo pickups that Jesse makes for them don't sound good plugged straight into a normal bass amp or console. It's a somewhat thin and somewhat harsh sound if you do that. Ergos need to be buffered by plugging them into a suitable high-impedence input preamp. Francis Deck's Hi-pass unit has received good reviews used with Ergos. I've had good results with my Raven Labs MDB-1. There are a variety of ways you can go with the preprocessing. It sounds like you know your gear pretty well, so I won't go on and on.

What I'd like to see is someone come up with a very small preamp that will fit in the tiny control cavity of an Ergo, maybe with a miniature battery. At least on my Ergo, a 9v battery won't fit with a circuit board and the back of the output jack. That way, an outboard box would not be necessary.

Jesse changes the controls around from time to time, so different Ergos have different controls and differently-sized cavities.

It'd be nice if he would find a supplier for a piezo buffer circuit and build those into the basses, and also offer them as a retrofit.
 
The thing I always notice with my Ergo is that the pickup system tends to be a bit flaky. Since the bridge rout is wider than the bridge, it is susceptible to being bumped in transit. Jesse's advice is to rock the bridge back and forth a bit until the sound improves. The idea is that the degree of pressure and seating of the bridge on the pickups can vary. It'd be nice if he rethought the routing of the bridge so that it was stationary, and perhaps found a way to incorporate the piezo elements into the bridge itself. That way, the bridge would be resting directly on the body in the rout, connecting better to the body, and also hopefully eliminating the variability of the piezo response.

Has anyone built a replacement bridge from scratch that has piezos mounted in holes in the bridge wood? If so, how has that worked out for you?
 
Arco, doesn't sound too well in my opinion. It is very nasal and bright, this is because of the piezo pickups--I just don't care for the sound of piezo pickups played arco--nothing wrong with the design, I don't like the $200 fishman piezo pickups either. I don't know if there is any way to fit a gage realist to this thing, I wonder how it would sound then . . .

Both of those things you mention are problems easily corrected by technique and new strings. Gage pickups are Piezos, too and Jesse uses the same concept.
Two places where Jesse keeps the price down and stand and strings.
Plan on replacing both and spending the time to adjust your technique to the ergo whether coming from DB or BG and it will serve you well.
One tip is to practice unamplified. The more you get the block of wood to resonate, the better your tone will be.
 
I just got an Ergo 6. #0515 Jesse liked the way it looked so much he put it on his website. Thats mine at the top of the page on his site. :hyper:

Beautiful man! I love the dark, rich looking color. I finally got moved into my new place and got my studio set up this past weekend, as well as finding my camera. I took a bunch of pics of stuff, including the Jessie-owned Ergo. I made some sound clips as well. I should post something later this week.
 
Thanks for all the tips guys, keep em coming.

I should have stated that I am using an old Fishman model B preamp, and although it helped the sound a bit--most of the complaints I have are probably just caused by the strings. I am also sure it will sound better through my EA rig which is more suited to DB than the GK800rb I was playing through last night.

I would like to figure out how to get the last two Obligatos on there without breaking them. The core just doesn't seem to handle the tight bend. Is anyone else using them with success? Anyone tried the Evah Pirazzi's on an Ergo? I understand they are pretty close to the Obligatos.

I think I also need to run a ground wire from the electronics to the strings, there is a pretty nasty hum that goes away when I touch the exposed metal on the 1/4 plug. Is this the right way to deal with this? I am not setting myself up to get shocked am I?

Thanks everyone for your advice!
 
Beautiful man! I love the dark, rich looking color. I finally got moved into my new place and got my studio set up this past weekend, as well as finding my camera. I took a bunch of pics of stuff, including the Jessie-owned Ergo. I made some sound clips as well. I should post something later this week.
Thanks. I love it. It's one serious piece of lumber. I can't wait to gig with it.
 
Nope, I'm not squeezing the neck--my hands sweat a lot, and I tend have a high PH . . . I think am literally melting the varnish.

So I fixed the sticky neck problem. I used varnish remover to strip it bare, sanded it and will be putting a few layers of tung on it. I already have a bottle of pure tung from refinishing a BG a while back. Just playing it bare is so much better. More like a real DB. The Tung oil will look okay, obviously there is no sunburst on back of the neck, but it doesn't bother me (that's all that matters.) Unfortunately the lacewood has a lumpy texture, which explains why Jesse had to use so much varnish. I would rather have a little texture than a sticky neck though. It would be nice to have the option to have a bare neck when ordering these.

The ground wire to the strings eliminated the hum, it isn't studio quiet, but good enough for my practice room.

I also have a set of 1/2" hipshot ultralite tuners on the way, I will probably have to drill out the head for them to fit, but hopefully the extra diameter will allow me to get these synthetics on there without breaking.

I will post back once I am done and update with how it all turns out.
 
Cool. Does anyone have any samples of an Ergo playing more mundane arco and pizz stuff? damonsmith, I'm into experimental classical stuff myself, so that's not a slight to you, but I'd be interested in hearing the Ergo playing something more pedestrian just to get a better sense of what what it can sound like.
 
Cool. Does anyone have any samples of an Ergo playing more mundane arco and pizz stuff? damonsmith, I'm into experimental classical stuff myself, so that's not a slight to you, but I'd be interested in hearing the Ergo playing something more pedestrian just to get a better sense of what what it can sound like.

Hey, I use plenty of pedestrian sounds between the weird ones! Maybe try to listen again.
 
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