I could buy that he might not get paid for cords without his name on them. But if ESP is making a Victor Wooten edition cable, he's getting paid. Either that or he needs to fire his manager for being slack.
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ESP MusicCord
- Thread starter MultiScaleMale
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My hypothesis is that studio owners and their customers are no less prone to audio voodoo than the rest of us.
On the other hand, if the power source does matter, then why not use audio measurement gear in the studio to rigorously nail down ground loops and other sources of interference?
I'm not giving just ESP a bad time. It's any super cord manufacturer. And not just power cords. But that would take this thread way off topic.
This board is full of those posting about confirming bias about what they have bought and what they paid, including myself. Turns out this is common human behavior but it doesn't mean it's smart.
Super cords are not proving new science, they are hype.
I've learned more about research, science, fallacies, and cognitive biases. This has has leads me to question manufacturers on their marketing claims. I hope more consumers do in hope that marketing hype is back up with measurements and truth.
This board a good place to let others know they too can dump the pleas of ignorance and actually do some critical thinking about their purchases. Some won't break out of the marketing hype routine. Others will. Those that do have a better chance of not wasting money and time.
I've also scanned the ESP site and carefully noted that they did not make any claims to any energy savings. We know that adequate wire gauge will eliminate resistance drop and heat. Making claims of saving energy will also send a red flag to the FTC. This is why power strips and power conditioners never claim any power savings. ESP seems to know this. Either that Or their multiple conductors do not save even a minute amount of power.
These super cords just border on what keeps US government off their backs. Organizations like Consumer Reports take it further and get pure hype products off the market. When they do review HiFi gear there's nothing but forum complaints about how they could possibly give the best review to $15 headphones over those that cost hundreds. They do double blind tests that's how. MI/Bass gear is just not high on their priority to test.
Roy Vogt
Supporting Member
- Sep 20, 2000
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A lot of Nashville studios are pretty anal-retentive about grounding, running separate circuits, etc. So they do get pretty careful about all of this, IME.
Well here are two videos of him marketing his product.
‪NAMM '09-Essential Sound Products MusicCord Power Cords‬‏ - YouTube
‪MF Music Marketing - ESP MusicCord‬‏ - YouTube
Sells $150 and up power cords. Picks up the tab for dinner at IHOP. Stay classy ESP.
While this doesn't isn't about power cables I thought I'd share this.
I just played two nights at an outdoor deck venue. It's a venue where I have to rely on my amp 'cause there's no PA support for the bass. The 1st night my bass , although loud enough, sounded dull and lifeless. Didn't seem like it was carrying well. The 2nd night I used some new cheapie instrument cables from GFS. The tone came alive. Highs were sweeter, more midrange focus & improved lows. Immediately I thought it was the cables but it reality it was because the air was a lot less humid on the 2nd night then the 1st.A lot less humid! Everything sounded better!
I just played two nights at an outdoor deck venue. It's a venue where I have to rely on my amp 'cause there's no PA support for the bass. The 1st night my bass , although loud enough, sounded dull and lifeless. Didn't seem like it was carrying well. The 2nd night I used some new cheapie instrument cables from GFS. The tone came alive. Highs were sweeter, more midrange focus & improved lows. Immediately I thought it was the cables but it reality it was because the air was a lot less humid on the 2nd night then the 1st.A lot less humid! Everything sounded better!
Boy, there's another can of worms...
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f15/plugging-head-into-power-conditioner-bad-662052/
I'll be interested in your tests/recordings.
I haven't seen any reference material on humility causing such a change. Although there are standards for testing at certain pressure (sea level) and humidity.
Do you have any references or articles? Sometimes a simple touch of a knob may make a change. Or maybe your bass was water logged
It was probably the guitar signal cable. Some cables have less capacitance and transfer the highs better. Not that a simple tweak of a tone control couldn't equal out the differences.
Roy Vogt
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- Sep 20, 2000
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- Endorsing Artist: Kiesel Basses, Ampeg Amplification, Hotone Ampero II effects
Lots of heat and very little light there as far as I can see. I'll be very interested in his test results. It sounds like he's a knowledgeable guy.
I'm totally aware of the placebo effect-I've used it on various Artists (some quite famous) and Producer types before when necessary. It's saved some player's gigs. My favorite was "rebooting" a digital synth so that the string samples weren't "out of tune" (there's no way I can tell you who that Artist was but it was a pretty big name
). I think smeet's idea of taking the same track and reamping will probably be the best way to go. As soon as NAMM is done I'll take a look at doing this.
I've have no scientific backround to determine this but when I play outside in really high humidity my bass seems to be dull sounding.
It may also have a lot to do with the fact that it's a lot more comfortable to play outside in low humidity. The moisture on the air around here (Philadelphia PA burbs) can hit Louisiana levels on a hot humid night. My frame of mind may have been better just by being more comfortable. The cables, while good quality, are nothing special.
It may also have a lot to do with the fact that it's a lot more comfortable to play outside in low humidity. The moisture on the air around here (Philadelphia PA burbs) can hit Louisiana levels on a hot humid night. My frame of mind may have been better just by being more comfortable. The cables, while good quality, are nothing special.
I can see weather conditions having an influence, perhaps not as much in the equipment itself but perhaps on the sound waves after they are produced...what's the speed of sound in dry cool air versus hot humid air?
Also, our sinuses can get congested when the weather is weird or allergies kick in. (Well at least mine do) THAT can make a huge difference in how we hear things.
I have noticed times when I would play with a guitar amp and arrive at a combination of settings that sounded absolutely killer. Coming back the next day, however, without changing any setings, it didn't sound quite so good. I'd tweak controls trying to recreate the sound I had before, and eventually get something that sounded kinda like I remembered....to find out I arrived at the same settings I started out with. Went in circles, from sounded great the day before to sounded like poop to sounded great again.
Our ears, and congitive memories, are definately NOT the perfect judge of audio signals.
Also, our sinuses can get congested when the weather is weird or allergies kick in. (Well at least mine do) THAT can make a huge difference in how we hear things.
I have noticed times when I would play with a guitar amp and arrive at a combination of settings that sounded absolutely killer. Coming back the next day, however, without changing any setings, it didn't sound quite so good. I'd tweak controls trying to recreate the sound I had before, and eventually get something that sounded kinda like I remembered....to find out I arrived at the same settings I started out with. Went in circles, from sounded great the day before to sounded like poop to sounded great again.
Our ears, and congitive memories, are definately NOT the perfect judge of audio signals.
bongomania
Commercial User
Humidity changes the density of the air we hear through, and it changes the rigidity of wooden objects like basses, and it changes the structural behavior of paper things like some speaker cones.
Roy Vogt
Supporting Member
- Sep 20, 2000
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- Endorsing Artist: Kiesel Basses, Ampeg Amplification, Hotone Ampero II effects
There are so many variables, and if you're playing the neighborhood Rock Club with Neon RF from Hell I'm not sure any really high dollar tweaks will be noticed. I pretty much use gigging audio cables when I'm doing any sort of General Business gigs and save the studio stuff for TV and recording work.
This has got me intrigued. I've got a GB gig tonight and I'll A/B power cables on the sets.
Hmm, if someone has the gear they can measure both electrical transmission and frequency response by A/B'ing the cables. That sounds like a job for a recording/mastering engineer or an electrical engineer or amp tech. Anybody in Nashville up for that? I can bring a cable by and we can check it out.
I have to go by Nashville Amp Repair and Jams Audio post-NAMM and I'll have Troy Sharp and Sam Stafford both check these cables out. There's also a hardcore High End Audio Geek store in my little town so I'll have them look at it as well. I'll also try to round up a couple of good recording engineers but it would be cool to also have an impartial third party that I don't know.
This has got me intrigued. I've got a GB gig tonight and I'll A/B power cables on the sets.
Hmm, if someone has the gear they can measure both electrical transmission and frequency response by A/B'ing the cables. That sounds like a job for a recording/mastering engineer or an electrical engineer or amp tech. Anybody in Nashville up for that? I can bring a cable by and we can check it out.
I have to go by Nashville Amp Repair and Jams Audio post-NAMM and I'll have Troy Sharp and Sam Stafford both check these cables out. There's also a hardcore High End Audio Geek store in my little town so I'll have them look at it as well. I'll also try to round up a couple of good recording engineers but it would be cool to also have an impartial third party that I don't know.
Absolutely, and anybody that thinks they are an exception to this is simply fooling themselves. A short study of the physical and cognitive process of hearing (and specifically musical hearing) will show that there are MANY levels of processing between the sound hitting the eardrums and the conscious perception of a musical note. Each level of processing adds abstraction and sophistication but also new forms of error and ways to get fooled. If you havent checked it out yet, please watch the video posted earlier on the McGurk illusion. It's amazing and mind-opening.
JAUQO III-X
Inactive
I watched the videos. He keeps talking about how small conductors may not flow adequate current, which is possible. But he throws large conductors under the bus, claiming they can cause everything from midrange harshness, loss of clarity, listener fatigue, etc, due to phase distortion, which is why he uses many small conductors.
Yet he completely ignores the fact that amps run on DC, which has no phase. No up and down sine waves to get misaligned. That is phase distortion.
Yet he completely ignores the fact that amps run on DC, which has no phase. No up and down sine waves to get misaligned. That is phase distortion.
- Jun 25, 2006
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I asked Vic about this and he swears he hears a difference when the ESP is plugged into his studio monitors. Then again, Meyer ships their $5000 monitors with a standard power cable.
There's a chart, speed of sound on wikipedia. There's also a chart on how fast sound travels in different materials. Water is much faster, helium faster, Sulfur hexafluoride (SF6) much slower, you can see youtube videos on people who inhale this (not safe to displace oxygen in lungs)
Great point. Simple things can affect hearing.
Excellent point again. It's like jumping into a cold pool. After a while it's not so cold. Human senses and the signal to our brains change and vary for many reasons. Scrooge claimed Marley;s ghost was a bit of undercooked potato.
JAUQO III-X
Inactive
I find it funny how some in this thread have such a hard core issue with those of us who hear a difference in tone with the ESP power cord.
It's even more funny when some here challenge the level or quality of our hearing. Some of us actually make a living based on the quality of our hearing.
Might as well just come out and call us a bunch of D-fools.
It's even more funny when some here challenge the level or quality of our hearing. Some of us actually make a living based on the quality of our hearing.
Might as well just come out and call us a bunch of D-fools.
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