Ethics question ...

[mrcbass]

I'm subbing for a band this Saturday. It's a venue that would be a good fit for one of MY bands. Other than the fact that we share the same market, the two bands are not similar. Both classic rock, but different spectrums, different vibe, different presentation. Nobody would ever confuse these two bands.

Not looking to steal gigs from the sub band (they are in the regular rotation there); just claim some available slots that they don't use.

Is it appropriate for me to get MY band's business card in the hands of the venue, while I'm subbing for another band? Subtly and respectfully of course.

 

[ArtechnikA]

Is it appropriate for me to get MY band's business card in the hands of the venue, while I'm subbing for another band? Subtly and respectfully of course.

Of course.
Just because you've played a sub (or any other) gig doesn't mean that venue is on your no-contact list forever.
What's preventing you from just going there right now and giving them your EPK? (Hint: nothing.)
A bigger question might be: if the venue's such a good fit, why have you never contacted them before?
What's to keep you from just sending your contact info from "The Band" any time you want? The mail runs every day...

There is a certain level of competition among local bands, of course, and taking this opportunity, however legit it is, could be taken the wrong way by members in the sub band, who may feel like you're horning in on 'their' venue. A risk you must evaluate.

 

[Reedt2000]

Of course.
Just because you've played a sub (or any other) gig doesn't mean that venue is on your no-contact list forever.
What's preventing you from just going there right now and giving them your EPK? (Hint: nothing.)
A bigger question might be: if the venue's such a good fit, why have you never contacted them before?
What's to keep you from just sending your contact info from "The Band" any time you want? The mail runs every day...

There is a certain level of competition among local bands, of course, and taking this opportunity, however legit it is, could be taken the wrong way by members in the sub band, who may feel like you're horning in on 'their' venue. A risk you must evaluate.

Pretty much all of this ^

If you think the sub band gives you a better "in" then it might be a good idea to run it by the band leader, just so you're not stepping on any toes. Ask for their blessing on your plan, and prevent any misunderstandings or hurt feelings if it does bother the sub band. Just present it as "this is what I'm hoping to do, want to make sure you're cool with it". If they're not OK, then do it on your own time.

 

[bass12]

I don’t see a problem. I might, however, refrain from approaching management on the night of the sub gig. I saw a guy I hired do that once and I’ll admit that I found it a bit too opportunistic.

 

[DrThumpenstein]

Pretty much all of this ^

If you think the sub band gives you a better "in" then it might be a good idea to run it by the band leader, just so you're not stepping on any toes. Ask for their blessing on your plan, and prevent any misunderstandings or hurt feelings if it does bother the sub band. Just present it as "this is what I'm hoping to do, want to make sure you're cool with it". If they're not OK, then do it on your own time.

I don’t see a problem. I might, however, refrain from approaching management on the night of the sub gig. I saw a guy I hired do that once and I’ll admit that I found it a bit too opportunistic.

I think these really hit the nail on the head. Yes, you can do it, but I agree that if you do it when you’re there it could be taken the wrong way, so as @Reedt2000 suggested, check with them if you want to do that the night of the sub gig.

What you do on your own time is of no concern to the band you are subbing with. But when you’re there on their time, I would be mindful of that.

 

[dalkowski]

You could/would do the same thing if you were visiting the venue as a customer, but doing it while you're gigging as a sub would be bad form. Good luck.

 

[2112]

We got a guy that's in another band. He advertises for both at both our gigs. It's gotten both bands ahead. We also put in good words for other bands where we play and other bands put in good words for us where they play. It may cause us to have fewer gigs at any particular joint, but based on what we hear about referrals, we get more gigs overall, which also broadens our exposure.

 

[LBS-bass]

I don’t see a problem. I might, however, refrain from approaching management on the night of the sub gig. I saw a guy I hired do that once and I’ll admit that I found it a bit too opportunistic.

It can be a sensitive thing in this sense, but I don't think it's wrong.

I've been in venues that I thought would be a perfect fit for bands I'm in that were better than the band that I was playing there with. It can be tricky to navigate those waters because the last thing you want to do is make current band's people feel less-than. So quietly slip them a business card with a promotional address/URL and just say something like, "hey, I'm also in this band and if you like this band tonight, you might like those guys, too."

Then you can follow up later with another visit.

You're not taking anything away from he band that's already in there. They already have the gig.

 

[DrThumpenstein]

You're not taking anything away from he band that's already in there. They already have the gig.

But you might be taking away their future gigs, which is why I agree with the suggestions to clear it with the band you’re with or just do it a different time.

 

[mrcbass]

Thanks all. I don't typically do booking for any bands. I don't get out a lot, so being in the neighborhood outside of the gig is not likely. I told MY BL about the venue and he told me to try to set it up - and actually, after begging, gave me A business card for legitimacy.

I guess the specific question should have been: "Can I do this while I'm at the sub gig." as that would be my intent. Sounds like that' may not be the classiest move.

 

[mrperkolator]

have the drummer show up to your sub gig and hand them the card. That way if it goes wrong, you can fire the drummer.

 

[portpc]

Your BL should make the effort to book the band, not you. If you have the contact person's info by all means pass it on but let them handle it. You are simply passing on a good lead.

 

[fhm555]

I was in a regular rotation situation for a while. We did every other weekend at a bigass pole barn built to be a dance club. The crowd was majority couples who liked to dance, have a few cold ones and some snacks. This guy would come in and sit at the bar talking down the band, then (surprise!) offer to bring in his band for less money and they wouldn't play geezer music. The owner’s better half took the bait and gave them one of our weekends. That lasted two rounds before the geezer band was back to our regularly scheduled program.

 

[Jazz Ad]

I don't know if it's ethical but I did it many many times. It's all about network.

 

[LBS-bass]

But you might be taking away their future gigs, which is why I agree with the suggestions to clear it with the band you’re with or just do it a different time.

Meh. Every band competes on its own merits, and merits include knowing how to do business. I don't care about their future gigs; that is their business and there are plenty of ways to get out in front of the pack if you work it right.

And bandleaders can be A-holes. Why give that BL a green light to block you? Or worse, enough information to sabotage you? So do it at a different time if that makes you feel better, but I would not bother to clear it with anyone, especially if I'm just a sub anyway.

Best way to deal with the threat that others might steal your future dates is to book far enough in advance that any future gigs in that room for the foreseeable future are already scheduled. If you're not booking smart like that, that shouldn't be a problem for me and I wouldn't expect any bandleader to hold my feet to the fire for it.

 

[mrperkolator]

Lots of good ideas here (except mine, which was intentionally bad).

To summarize: It is doable if you are classy about it.

Personally, I'd just tell the manager I know some people who may be interested in playing, and ask for contact information for whoever does their booking- And nothing else. It comes across as professional, and not like the guy at the pole barn (funny story @fhm555 ). Sounds arrogant enough that it was probably a guitar player....

 

[LBS-bass]

Lots of good ideas here (except mine, which was intentionally bad).

To summarize: It is doable if you are classy about it.

Personally, I'd just tell the manager I know some people who may be interested in playing, and ask for contact information for whoever does their booking- And nothing else. It comes across as professional, and not like the guy at the pole barn (funny story @fhm555 ). Sounds arrogant enough that it was probably a guitar player....

This is the thing. Nobody ever got a gig (well, almost nobody) by just talking to someone in a club. You introduce, you make the initial contact, in other words, you begin the networking process. But the real selling has to happen at a different time. They still have to review your materials and decide if they like you. So whatever you're doing in that initial conversation isn't really very threatening, you're just making someone aware that you exist.

 

[fhm555]

This is the thing. Nobody ever got a gig (well, almost nobody) by just talking to someone in a club. You introduce, you make the initial contact, in other words, you begin the networking process. But the real selling has to happen at a different time. They still have to review your materials and decide if they like you. So whatever you're doing in that initial conversation isn't really very threatening, you're just making someone aware that you exist.

In gut bucket land it’s somewhat different.
I might say it was dog eat dog but some of the behavior I’ve seen in the name of securing a bar job would be an insult to your average canine.

 

[LBS-bass]

In gut bucket land it’s somewhat different.

That's why I said "almost nobody"

 

[DrThumpenstein]

Meh. Every band competes on its own merits, and merits include knowing how to do business. I don't care about their future gigs; that is their business and there are plenty of ways to get out in front of the pack if you work it right.

And bandleaders can be A-holes. Why give that BL a green light to block you? Or worse, enough information to sabotage you? So do it at a different time if that makes you feel better, but I would not bother to clear it with anyone, especially if I'm just a sub anyway.

Best way to deal with the threat that others might steal your future dates is to book far enough in advance that any future gigs in that room for the foreseeable future are already scheduled. If you're not booking smart like that, that shouldn't be a problem for me and I wouldn't expect any bandleader to hold my feet to the fire for it.

Being respectful of the reason you are in the club is not giving a green light to anybody to block you, whether they are A-holes or not. It's just being respectful of the band that brought you into contact with the club manager. You don't have to do it on the spot.