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Ethics question ...
- Thread starter mrcbass
- Start date
I guess you and I will disagree on this. The reason I am in the club is that I was hired to do that job for a fee, which I am presumably doing. I might be in that same club tomorrow with someone else.
Having a job to do on any given night doesn't mean I have to switch off all the other things I'm also involved with in deference to one night's paycheck and the band that's providing it. No street is one way - I'm sure that bandleader would be thrilled if I brought in all the fans from some other band to hear him.
But that's just me- I guess I don't compartmentalize that well because things in my music world have always been pretty fluid, so I'm always sitting on top of a multitude of possibilities and networking those. Most of the people I work with are similar. That band I gave up an opportunity for might hire someone else next week, no matter what I do. This is really just business for a lot of people in the sub world.
But as I said, if you're more comfortable not doing that, you shouldn't.
85% say "yes" - Oy Vey ...
Great way to get yourself blacklisted as a sub.
OTOH it's OK to make note of who the BL is interacting with and go back on another day to schmooze for a gig, NOT referencing the other band unless the venue person brings it up that they remember you from that gig - but NEVER badmouth that band (or any other band ever - it WILL come back to bite you).
Great way to get yourself blacklisted as a sub.
OTOH it's OK to make note of who the BL is interacting with and go back on another day to schmooze for a gig, NOT referencing the other band unless the venue person brings it up that they remember you from that gig - but NEVER badmouth that band (or any other band ever - it WILL come back to bite you).
I know of a local band that has four members that covers classic rock. There is also a four member band that plays funk and heavier stuff from more recently. The third band does group specific/tribute performances. All three bands have their own kick drum covers, banners and signature light shows. All three bands also have the same members. Would they be stepping on their own toes if, while playing a show, advertised for their other acts? I will say that I've never heard of them double booked, but have played back to back shows as two different bands at the same venue.
20 or so years ago, I was the main person booking gigs for a pretty talented college rock band. We had built a following and I had built some great relationships with college rock clubs that paid quite well. One night while getting paid after a stellar gig in East Lansing, MI on the Michigan State University campus, the manager/talent buyer says "So who is insert Band Name?" This was a new cover band that our drummer had just started.
I was stunned. I could not believe that my buddy had horned in on the thriving relationship that I had built just to benefit his new project. I never actually said anything to him about it, we are still friends and are still in another band together...but I will never forget it. Good luck OP.
I was stunned. I could not believe that my buddy had horned in on the thriving relationship that I had built just to benefit his new project. I never actually said anything to him about it, we are still friends and are still in another band together...but I will never forget it. Good luck OP.
Of course, but if you do end up taking dates away from your sub gig, for instance if you draw more and sell more beer, and the owner makes an executive decision giving your band date the other band was getting, you may kiss that sub gig good bye.
If you're a decent sub, that's not really a worry. Bands that have work are going to want you. Their need for you typically outweighs your need for them, unless you live in an area where good subs are plentiful.
I'd file this blacklist threat under that A-hole BL heading and wouldn't worry about it. Anyone who takes offense at my attempt to get additional work for myself isn't someone I want to keep working for, and I won't be the only person who notices this.
The thing I really do agree with you on is the comment about badmouthing bands. This isn't something anyone should do. The world is small, and stuff like this does come back to bite you later. The most you should be doing in this situation is introducing yourself and making someone aware that your other band exists. Follow up later and keep everything positive.
This kind of reminds me of another situation I find myself in. I'm in three different bands that all play at a particular club, and everyone wants to play in that club. Two other bands have hounded me for months about "getting them in there." I can't do it. Those club owners don't want to talk to me about new bands, they want the existing bands I'm in that they know they like. But it's very easy and common for BLs to try to leverage my contacts to get what THEY want. It should be fair from both sides.
I'll go against the grain and say I would never pitch my band while performing with another band. There is certainly nothing "wrong" with it. As others have said it, it's just business. It's just that personally I don't feel right doing it. Having said that, I got no problem with another member of your band showing up in the audience and dropping a card since they aren't there representing the performing act. If they buy a drink from the venue while there, all the better.
I think it's OK to do, but depends on HOW you do it. I agree with others that you could just pitch the venue on a different day than the sub gig if you want it bad enough. Doing it on the gig is generally OK depending on how secure your sub band is. But not gonna lie, if i was that BL i would definitely take note of it but wouldn't hold it against you or anything. Other BL's that are insecure and disrespectful of your own hustle might take offense. You'll have to read the room so to speak.
This is a common fallacy. A lot of us grew up watching Beatles movies and The Monkees and The Partridge family and somehow got the idea that band life is like family life, bands are marriages, and the bonds are sacrosanct.
It's really not like that. There's no disloyalty in trying to leverage the position you find yourself in to find additional work. But a lot of people still seem to feel this way, and can't understand why people don't want to be utterly loyal to only one band that just works a handful of times a year.
I get that some people don't have the time to do more than that. But some people do.
I voted yes, but can see the other side of the question.
But in my local scene it’s just the de facto standard. So when in Rome...
But in my local scene it’s just the de facto standard. So when in Rome...
I think it's totally OK to promote your other band at the venue you're subbing at. However, letting the band you're subbing with know that you'd like to give the venue a bizniz card from your other band would be an optional, but very cool thing to do in the interest of total transparency (and getting future sub gigs from them).
While at the gig and subbing? I don't think it's OK. You are there to perform and circulate with the customers, not market another band. Your on someone else's clock.
Afterwards, or at any other time, it is fine.
Afterwards, or at any other time, it is fine.
@mrcbass That you had to ask means you already knew the answer. It's not alright. Listen to the wisdom of your inner voice, and honor it. Ignore pole results that are contrary to your inner sense of honesty.
You are your sub band's employee for the night, responsible for supporting and representing them to your best ability, focus, and devotion. They are not paying you to market another band. They are paying you to represent them in their best light, in a professional manner, which is the best demonstration of marketing for them, to their sole benefit.
Be an ambassador for the sub band while under contract with them, helping them get more work. You owe them nothing less.
You are your sub band's employee for the night, responsible for supporting and representing them to your best ability, focus, and devotion. They are not paying you to market another band. They are paying you to represent them in their best light, in a professional manner, which is the best demonstration of marketing for them, to their sole benefit.
Be an ambassador for the sub band while under contract with them, helping them get more work. You owe them nothing less.
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Handing out a business card is one thing, Plugging another band over a mic is another.
I quit a band where the lead singer plugged another band that they were in and commented that they were the best of the best locally. Then named the players that would be performing in that band. This was in front of 15- 20,000 people. There was more, but that helped to tip the scales for me.
I quit a band where the lead singer plugged another band that they were in and commented that they were the best of the best locally. Then named the players that would be performing in that band. This was in front of 15- 20,000 people. There was more, but that helped to tip the scales for me.
Seems very tacky to do that while you're "on the clock" with another band.
Make a mental note of the venue and reach out to them at a later time. Just my 2 cents.
Make a mental note of the venue and reach out to them at a later time. Just my 2 cents.
Subs are free agents. Nobody’s on a clock. Y’all wonder why I have gigs and you don’t? This thread is the answer. People are too terrified to network.
The best time to talk about this is exactly when someone’s got a good feeling about what you’re bringing to the table. Outside of that you’re just a random player who wants to talk to the manager like everyone else. Striking when the iron is cold is a poor strategy.
I’ll say one more thing on this and then I’ll shut up. Nobody you’re worried about offending has your back on anything you do in the future. I promise that’s not how it works. If opportunity knocks, don’t cower.
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When I ran my IT company I didn’t require a non-compete clause from my subcontractors. However, when you were onsite at one of my company’s client engagements and you were on my company’s clock, you’d be expected to act the same as if you were an actual employee of my firm. So I’d consider pitching out client while you were on one of our jobs to be bad form.
But if you wanted to contact the client afterwards and do a pitch, I’d have zero problems with that. I never worried about possible competition. Truth is, we welcomed it.
But if you wanted to contact the client afterwards and do a pitch, I’d have zero problems with that. I never worried about possible competition. Truth is, we welcomed it.
