I would not do it and would be bugged if my sub did. But... I would ask one of my band mates to solicit the venue.
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Ethics question ...
- Thread starter mrcbass
- Start date
Huh?
Free agent means you’re free to solicit work, negotiate compensation, and accept or decline an engagement.
But when you’ve accepted a gig as an independent contractor (i.e. work for hire) and getting paid for it, you most certainly are on somebody’s clock - and under contract whether you think so or not.
By my reckoning, I'm free to walk, and I will*. I've agreed to do a job for a fee, and if I'm playing my three sets or whatever it is with the appropriate skill for the agreed upon money, my obligation is fulfilled.
If they don't like the way I do things I'm under no obligation to take their work. If you know your worth, you understand that that is also a part of the equation here. A lot of folks don't seem to understand that what they offer has a value.
I'm not irreplaceable but I do get a lot of work, and I don't do it by shying away from opportunities. I also don't cut my nose off to spite my face. Handing someone a business card and making them aware of other bands I'm in when they are having a good time and enjoying the fruits of my labor is not a horrible, back-stabbing thing to do.
As I've said in numerous threads here, you make the contact. You follow up later. It's not an all or nothing proposition. Your first sentence tells me you haven't read my posts in this thread so you're not bothering to check if what I'm saying makes sense.
Doing it in that moment increases the chance that someone will tell the person who matters that you were there doing a good job and you might be someone they want to talk to, as opposed to the other 20 people who contacted them cold that week. This is, in fact, the smart time to do this. There is no better time. Walk in next week and the odds are good that nobody remembers you or the good band you were in. You'll be lucky if anyone is there who even heard you.
That's good business sense. The rest of this is just terrified people who think bandleaders have more power than they actually do.
*Note: This has never actually happened, because nobody has ever cared.
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I don't think I would do it at the gig you are subbing in for. Your main focus on the gig night should be for the band you playing for. In essence, you are a member of the band that night. That said, at a different time, marketing your main band at this venue is all good.
Bones
Bones
Ok.
But none of that really touches on what I said earlier. I was just saying what free agency means. It has nothing to do with pitching a client or making contacts while on a gig per se. It just means you’re free to seek, negotiate, and accept or decline work.
And my other point was that while you’re working for hire (as in: “on the clock”) even though it’s temporary, there is a contract.
That’s the sum total of what I was saying.
I've never had anyone tell me that I can't network in a bar as a part of my condition for playing a show. There is a contract, but I don't think it includes that. Unless someone explicitly tells me I'm not to talk with anyone who works at that bar before I agree to play, then I don't think this is relevant. I also wouldn't agree to that, so maybe that's just me walking ahead of schedule
And seeking work would be exactly what one is doing when they're networking to try to connect in a way that invites a follow-up later. So there's that. I think the idea that you can't connect with anyone while you're playing a show robs you of your best opportunity to make a personal connection while you're making a good impression, which isn't really fair.
If a bandleader wants me to be that loyal, they need to put enough shows on the books that I don't have time to work with anyone else, but that's the one thing they never seem able to do these days. As I said earlier, they never seem to have an ethical problem with trying to leverage my connections for their own benefit.
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Do it on your time, not the band's time that your subbing for.
OK, I give up. You're right. Slipping someone a card and making them aware that you do other things is a terribly dishonest thing. I'm a terrible person.
Everyone feel better?
Hope so. Have a lovely evening!
I've never had anyone tell me that I can't network in a bar as a part of my condition for playing a show. There is a contract, but I don't think it includes that. Unless someone explicitly tells me I'm not to talk with anyone who works at that bar before I agree to play, then I don't think this is relevant. I also wouldn't agree to that, so maybe that's just me walking ahead of schedule
And seeking work would be exactly what one is doing when they're networking to try to connect in a way that invites a follow-up later. So there's that. I think the idea that you can't connect with anyone while you're playing a show robs you of your best opportunity to make a personal connection while you're making a good impression, which isn't really fair.
If a bandleader wants me to be that loyal, they need to put enough shows on the books that I don't have time to work with anyone else, but that's the one thing they never seem able to do these days. As I said earlier, they never seem to have an ethical problem with trying to leverage my connections for their own benefit.
Not disagreeing with any of that. I was just disagreeing with what may have been my misinterpretation of what you were saying earlier about not being on the clock. Perhaps you meant it as when outside the actual gig?
As far as networking while subbing, the “rule” is whatever the understanding is between the sub and the band.
To me pitching someone (as the OP put it) and networking (as I understand it) are two different things. Still, whenever I engaged a subcontractor, I’d always introduce them to my client as a matter of course. Sometimes I’d get a call awhile later from the client asking what I thought. And I’d be very candid. If I was happy with the sub’s performance I’d sing their praises.
Sometimes I’d get a client request for something that was entirely or mostly outside our bailiwick or areas of interest (ex: website design, media production, white hat pen testing, etc.) that we’d need to engage a sub to handle. In those cases I’d offer our client the option to deal directly with the sub since our added value would be minimal. But even so, three quarters of the time they’d just ask us to handle it all for them.
I guess they preferred to keep us involved. Which was fine even though I’d rather we didn’t just act as liaison or purely in a supervisory capacity. But that was the client’s call. “Whatever whenever.” was our unofficial motto.
Which is why I never worried about “The Competition.” IMO really good businesses don’t have any. Same goes for bands. Provided there’s a market (not automatically a given and probably the single biggest ‘if’ these days) and your band is really good, you’ll get plenty of work.
But maybe that’s just me.
No marketing equals no work. My take is... Show up do your job. When the job is over you're on YOUR time. At that point it's time to market yourself and go with it. People get butt hurt to easy and if they just want to use you for their benefit alone disregarding your hard work and ambition elsewhere then that's bs.
This. I voted "no," because of the word "when" in the question. WHILE you're subbing with a band, you are working for THAT band. I would consider it unprofessional to promote any band other than the one you're working for during the time you're getting paid for (ie the gig itself). But I do not think there's anything wrong with contacting the venue later on to promote your other band. The fact that you subbed there once doesn't make it out of bounds.
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it's not classy if you feel like you're sneaking. OTOH, there are plenty of adult ways (e.g., discretion) not to offend anyone while looking at opportunities for yourself or for your project(s). good luck "scoping out" what may be your next gig!
well, you get to eat first/most if you're a big dog!In gut bucket land it’s somewhat different.I might say it was dog eat dog.....
but you gotta come with something that's appropriate for one of the "big dogs."
Allow me to pose a question, say you are subbing for this band and that night the band takes 5 bookings out of it. Do you get first refusal being the bass player on that night or does their regular bass player automatically get them?
You will likely get the call if the bass player can’t do the gigs but you aren’t getting the call before he is. Even though, by many peoples thoughts in this thread, you are in the band that night therefore you helped earn the work. That’s not how people see these things.
Speak to the folk in charge and ask if they have other available nights for music. Just don’t ask for the nights you know the band you sub for are doing and it’s all good.
You will likely get the call if the bass player can’t do the gigs but you aren’t getting the call before he is. Even though, by many peoples thoughts in this thread, you are in the band that night therefore you helped earn the work. That’s not how people see these things.
Speak to the folk in charge and ask if they have other available nights for music. Just don’t ask for the nights you know the band you sub for are doing and it’s all good.
