I’ve gone back to places where I subbed with a band; no ethical issue there. But the night of the gig? That’s just low class.
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Ethics question ...
- Thread starter mrcbass
- Start date
i voted 'no'. you are being paid for your time when you sub. solicit work for yourself or your own band on your own time.
buldog5151bass
Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.
JeezyMcNuggles
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- Feb 23, 2018
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- I suck, but nobody really notices
If either band had a problem with it I’d separate myself from that group. The venue wants to make money as much as you and your band does. It’s totally appropriate, no big deal, and you absolutely should pursue a professional relationship between you and the venue.
And remember...
Venues don't like to have the same band every night. Some set "frequency limits" - like the same band cannot play more than once every 6 weeks. This keeps the venue and clientele fresh and rolling over. Some get even more specific, like at least 50% of the band members need to be different to constitute being a different band.
If you are the only common member, it should t be an issue... And would allow you personally to play the venue with more frequency.
The other band may not be able to play the venue more frequently than once a month... So you wouldn't necessarily be stealing a gig.
Venues don't like to have the same band every night. Some set "frequency limits" - like the same band cannot play more than once every 6 weeks. This keeps the venue and clientele fresh and rolling over. Some get even more specific, like at least 50% of the band members need to be different to constitute being a different band.
If you are the only common member, it should t be an issue... And would allow you personally to play the venue with more frequency.
The other band may not be able to play the venue more frequently than once a month... So you wouldn't necessarily be stealing a gig.
Nothing unethical at all about it. That said....
During a show is probably NOT the best time to do this; Bar is busy, people are serving drinks, and IME, the decision maker is probably not there.
Tuesday/Wednesday at ~3p is the prime manager time.
During a show is probably NOT the best time to do this; Bar is busy, people are serving drinks, and IME, the decision maker is probably not there.
Tuesday/Wednesday at ~3p is the prime manager time.
OMG this is soooooo Over-Thought!
I answered before reading anything. Let's get a grip here:
This is a bar band at a bar in nowhere land. It is not a touring club professional trying tu usurp an opening spot for Night Ranger or something like that!
"You are hired performer on the band's clock! " Does he have to punch in and out to go take a dump too? Or is that specified in the contract?
If he REALLY wanted to undermine them - he would have got the call, declined the offer, and told the owner that he heard they had a bass player missing and that he had an intact band ready and able to fill it.
During a break...you know - the 15 minutes between sets...probably like three of those any given evening, and time before and after, he can easily go drop a card, a flyer or whatever on the manger. Jeez....
"Don't promote another band on the mic". Did that really need said?????
You'll get "blackballed as a sub?" Seriously - someone needs loosen their pants a size. Something is riding up in an irritable spot. Good sub is good, and the market is the market. Dude knows there are open spots and he wants them. Dang....this band probably has other gigs.
Deep breathe everyone - relax. Sony corporate lawyers will not be needed here! Bar band...classic Schlock or rock or whatever.
I answered before reading anything. Let's get a grip here:
This is a bar band at a bar in nowhere land. It is not a touring club professional trying tu usurp an opening spot for Night Ranger or something like that!
"You are hired performer on the band's clock! " Does he have to punch in and out to go take a dump too? Or is that specified in the contract?
If he REALLY wanted to undermine them - he would have got the call, declined the offer, and told the owner that he heard they had a bass player missing and that he had an intact band ready and able to fill it.
During a break...you know - the 15 minutes between sets...probably like three of those any given evening, and time before and after, he can easily go drop a card, a flyer or whatever on the manger. Jeez....
"Don't promote another band on the mic". Did that really need said?????
You'll get "blackballed as a sub?" Seriously - someone needs loosen their pants a size. Something is riding up in an irritable spot. Good sub is good, and the market is the market. Dude knows there are open spots and he wants them. Dang....this band probably has other gigs.
Deep breathe everyone - relax. Sony corporate lawyers will not be needed here! Bar band...classic Schlock or rock or whatever.
Agree. The other one is, "how dare someone take advantage of the work I did to get to this relationship with the venue!"
Uh, what? You think I didn't work hard to get to the place where you hired me to stand in this venue and demonstrate to everyone what I do? There's lots of work that goes into finding jobs; nobody's riding your coattails and skating in with no work done to undermine you. How did you end up in that venue for the first time? What did you have to do to convince that club to hire you? You think the road ahead for me, once I make initial contact with someone there, is somehow going to be different than yours was?
There's so much competitive mindset in this thread. Music isn't a competition, and musicians are not at each other's throats. Opportunities are limited but generally so are the number of nights any given band will be able to play. This is why I play in so many bands and yet I still have weeks off at a time.
The best collaborative efforts I work in all realize this, and support each others' work fully. One bandleader I work with goes through the whole roster of nine players when he introduces us and mentions the other bands we work in and all of our upcoming shows with those bands. That guy finds more work than anyone I work with because he knows his best advantage comes from being supportive to his players, and that mindset is why he can attract some of the better players in town, and still pay them well.
People who want to play this game close to the vest will ultimately not be very successful because there's only so much you can achieve when you think everyone's out to get you.
I can think of a competitive band or two...and no one likes them and I wouldn't pee on their gear to put out a fire.
The rest -
- Hey, we dropped a gig, do you want it?
- Sure, I'll sub on guitar for you
- Hey, call thus and such - they are looking for people like you
The people who are really stealing gigs are easy to find, and short lived in any scene.
The rest -
- Hey, we dropped a gig, do you want it?
- Sure, I'll sub on guitar for you
- Hey, call thus and such - they are looking for people like you
The people who are really stealing gigs are easy to find, and short lived in any scene.
I've briefly been in bands with these people, but I realized the vibe was very uncool early on and got out when I could. I can't think of a single one of those bands that went anywhere.
When you have a bandleader that's over-controlling like this, it permeates everything. It's not just about keeping an eye on the "employees" at clubs so they don't stray into self-interested territory, it seeps into every aspect, and players eventually figure this out. These are the same guys that talk smack about other bands and players in the area and my first reaction to this is to recognize that they're talking smack about me to someone else, too.
Networking is how we do everything in this line of work/hobby.
Just performing is putting your name on the radar.
We pay it back too. We offer names of other bands when we can't do a gig.
Might as well.
Just performing is putting your name on the radar.
We pay it back too. We offer names of other bands when we can't do a gig.
Might as well.
Wow wasn't expecting this to be so controversial. Thanks for all the discussion. A couple of general responses to a few posts that I remember reading:
1. "Marketing" may have been the wrong choice of words. I would never, under any circumstances, blatantly promote another band to the audience or a venue while representing another. That's so not appropriate. What I meant by "marketing" was to get a business card in the hands of the person that manages this stuff, nothing more.
2. The band I subbed for is a much better band (IMO) than any of MY bands. There is simply no danger of any of my bands taking work away from this group, especially on their home turf.
3. Somebody told me I already knew the answer; well no I didn't. I'm aware enough to think it is questionable behavior, so I questioned. Poll results (as well as the thread) indicate that as a collective, we're generally OK with doing so with caveats, but some are adamantly against the practice.
Update:
So I went to the gig with the intention of asking BL if it was OK for me to get the manager a business card. Planned to do this after the gig. In set one, the LS was warming the audience and making comments indicating that the band considers this place their home base. After hearing that, it didn't feel right to me to proceed with the plan to promote my 0other band at that time. The staff was busy rolling the joint up for the night by the time I was loaded out anyway and as someone who has done that type of work before, I knew they would not have appreciated being bothered with that nonsense anyway
I generally don't think it's ultimately bad to do this, but agree that there are some preferred tactics.
Appreciate all the discussion.
1. "Marketing" may have been the wrong choice of words. I would never, under any circumstances, blatantly promote another band to the audience or a venue while representing another. That's so not appropriate. What I meant by "marketing" was to get a business card in the hands of the person that manages this stuff, nothing more.
2. The band I subbed for is a much better band (IMO) than any of MY bands. There is simply no danger of any of my bands taking work away from this group, especially on their home turf.
3. Somebody told me I already knew the answer; well no I didn't. I'm aware enough to think it is questionable behavior, so I questioned. Poll results (as well as the thread) indicate that as a collective, we're generally OK with doing so with caveats, but some are adamantly against the practice.
Update:
So I went to the gig with the intention of asking BL if it was OK for me to get the manager a business card. Planned to do this after the gig. In set one, the LS was warming the audience and making comments indicating that the band considers this place their home base. After hearing that, it didn't feel right to me to proceed with the plan to promote my 0other band at that time. The staff was busy rolling the joint up for the night by the time I was loaded out anyway and as someone who has done that type of work before, I knew they would not have appreciated being bothered with that nonsense anyway
I generally don't think it's ultimately bad to do this, but agree that there are some preferred tactics.
Appreciate all the discussion.
Sounds like you made a sensible choice, based on context. Hope the gig was fun!
