Double Bass Evah Pirazzi strings megathread part I

[TroyK]

I've never been so undecided about strings before in my life. It's quite astounding.

First, let me say that I think these are very good strings. I don't have any gripes about them. Not quality, not construction, not silk color. Nothing. Very nice product, Pirastro.

Second, they could very well be the sound that I've been chasing all these years. Dark and thumpy, but not too dark. Clear. Not muddy. Arco and Pizz. Reasonable tension. (more on that)

I'm not indifferent about them after however many months of playing. I've had strings before that I just couldn't manage to care one way or another about and these are not them. I just either keep changing my mind or can't decide. Even over the course of a single evening.

My G string (and maybe the D) are buzzing a little. I doubt that anyone but me can hear this and it doesn't really bother me, but all things considered equal, I would prefer that my strings didn't buzz like this. I could be my set up. They seem to fit O.K. in the nut and bridge, but I didn't want to have my luthier fit them until I decided if they were staying and (see above). It could also be something with the string. I think someone else reported a problem. I'm not ready to do that.

The acoustic vs amplification thing has been talked about pretty good in this thread, I won't rehash it, but the character of them does change with setting and volume. Maybe not just amplification. I find this to be true with most darker strings. I learned last year in my pursuit of "the sound" that it was not in my basement was it was on stage. If only it were. I should probably (no, not probably, I should) get better educated with using my eq on a gig on dial my sound in as the room and band change, but still...

However, last Saturday I played a trio gig where I don't think that our volume went up over the night, but the 4th set, I was struggling to articulate. I have some trouble playing these strings. I'm not entirely blaming the strings. I accept that technique surely plays a role as does stamina and I've been working through a shoulder injury. It's impossible for me to say how I would be doing with differnet strings right now in the same circumstances, but I'm struggling with these as the night goes on. Especially if the volume goes up and I feel that as I stuggle the character and tone changes more than with other strings. Not a total indictment of the strings, but just an observation. I'm trying to work through it.

I can't seem to decide about the tension of these. I've decided that they are high tension/stiff and then I've decided that I'm stuggling because they are somewhat lower tension/supple (I'm using those terms interchangably because I'm describling my peception rather than an actual state). It's very strange. I can't quite explain it.

There is something very hard to get my brain around with respect to these strings.

I have an older OLIV G string that has some hours left on it, I think. And I'm contimplating putting it on with the set for comparison, but I know this type of string doesn't love being taken off and put back on again, so I'm trying to be patient and adjust to the set and see how I feel.

Just updating the thread and seeing if anyone has any reaction to my lunatic ramblings.

 

[Uncletoad]

........

I'm not indifferent about them after however many months of playing. I've had strings before that I just couldn't manage to care one way or another about and these are not them. I just either keep changing my mind or can't decide. Even over the course of a single evening.

......

I can't seem to decide about the tension of these. I've decided that they are high tension/stiff and then I've decided that I'm stuggling because they are somewhat lower tension/supple (I'm using those terms interchangably because I'm describling my peception rather than an actual state). It's very strange. I can't quite explain it.

There is something very hard to get my brain around with respect to these strings.

I understand ALL of this. I didn't give them near as much time as you but I had very similar reactions to them.

I actually ripped the E/A off my bass between sets and put back on the Spirocores cause they bugged me so much. Love em one minute/hate them the next.

Like the psycho girl I dated in college. Unbelievably compelling but ultimately a letdown.

I swear its the plastic core thing. I've always had an attraction revulsion thing with them. Dominants especially. They'd be my favorite strings if they didn't sound so plastic on my bass.

I have a hard time playing low tension low stiffness strings because I end up working to hard by the end of the night. These strings are low tension high stiffness. In a way like the Dominants but more so. So I think I'm not working to hard but by the end of the set I'm burgermeat from trying to coax something from them that I can't get.

I don't have that problem with spirocores.

I swear I'm just going back to those....

 

[TroyK]

I swear, even as a Gold Supporting Member, Talkbass is really cheap, really effective thearpy. Someone understands me!

I swear its the plastic core thing. ... if they didn't sound so plastic on my bass. ....

THis might be it. It's been in the back of my mind. I'm hearing something that I don't think makes it out in front of the bass. I've recorded shows and it sounds nice out front, but my ear struggles with it.

I have a hard time playing low tension low stiffness strings because I end up working to hard by the end of the night. These strings are low tension high stiffness. So I think I'm not working to hard but by the end of the set I'm burgermeat from trying to coax something from them that I can't get.

That's kind of what I'm feeling. If I'm practicing or if the room and the volume are right, the first and maybe second set are fine. After that, I'm fighting. It's easy to blame myself because of my shoulder problems (and technique problem) and I may be to blame, but something feels like it may be off in the universe too.

I don't have that problem with spirocores.

I swear I'm just going back to those....

Been thinking about that too. I don't think I can handle the twangy G strings and I don't think I can handle the quest for the holy match again. But, I've come to terms with organic and woody being good in concept and not especially versital in application for noisy bars and noisy bands as well as small intimate settings. Still, I want my bass to sound like I want it to sound, especially when lights are low, so to speak, so I am not ready to go all George Mraz with my sound just yet either.

I really like the way the EPs sound under ideal circumstances, which is why they are still on my bass. And I like the meatiness of them. And some other stuff. But, I need to be able to play them. First and foremost.

 

[Uncletoad]

There is no one size fits all in strings or in life.

 

[TroyK]

Phil, do you get tired in a similar way from playing on guts?

 

[Uncletoad]

Phil, do you get tired in a similar way from playing on guts?

I did with the mediums. The heavies and heavy+ I don't.

A and E wounds were the worst.

Animas did that to me big time.

Guts are a different animal altogether.

Took me awhile to adjust to them, and then again to adjust to spiro/gut combos.

I don't recommend going there. Well, it's not a solution to the string thing anyhow. Gut D/G is such a different thing to play on. I think you have to want the gut sound over anything. It's not a solution to a steel string dilemma. Go to gut cause you wanna go there, not to solve sound struggles.

 

[TroyK]

Yeah, I know. I've played guts on other people's basses and liked them, but not wanted to commit to that path for myself. Love the sound. Every time I hear a Mingus record or a really good Sam Jones recording, I have urges, but I resist.

Animas have always been like a Medievil torture device to me. I like the way they sound when other people are playing them, but my experiences playing them on a loaner bass and sitting in on other people's basses have nearly put me in the ER.

EPs are not the bad, it's way more subtle than that, but I do feel like I'm fighting them as the night goes on. I think about my Alexander Technique lessons, breath, try not to try so hard, but, when I lose control of them, I have trouble getting it back. I can't quite explain it.

But, it sounds like you get it.

-tk

 

[martinc]

I think UncleToad has nailed it.
Its to do with the synthetic core. I have junked Obligato's, Heritage, Innovations, Dominants and others because after a while all I hear is the "plastic". They do not respond the same (on my Eberle and King) as steel or gut higher up the neck the neck. Their sound is "linear" rather than "up and down".
When your playing and technique (or lack of in my case) is based on having a string with dynamics its difficult to get used to the different response from a synthetic string.
Part of the problem for me is that I have used gut on the G and D many times over the years so in a sense I am spoiled. But my ears are also telling me synthetic core strings are much different to guts, no matter what the claims from the manufacturers are. Maybe we want to believe they are a good substitute for guts but after a while we realize we have been kidding ourselves.
I will say though, that of all the synthetic core strings I have used, acoustically the EP's are the best of the bunch. But for some reason they also have given me the most trouble reproducing their acoustic sound when I use my pick-up.

 

[Francois Blais]

I have junked Obligato's, Heritage, Innovations, Dominants and others because after a while all I hear is the "plastic".

Hi Martin.
Which Heritages did you try?
I ordered an E to replace the Obligato, and am curious about your opinion.
I'm waiting for the EP G in the mail in the next days.
But I like the Obli D & A so far.

Best,
François

 

[TroyK]

Francois, you've had an EP G before, because I got my first one from you! Are you repeating your experiments?

Qu'est-ce tu fait?

 

[bribass]

Troy K and Tiofrog, I feel your pain exactly.

After about two months of the EP'S on my German bass I finally took them off. The last straw so to speak was a trio gig I did where we weren't playing loud at at, but the room was noisey w/conversation. They did seem to feel worse as the night went on and by the last set (and the noisey guests had even quieted down at this point) I just couldn't get a clear sound thru the amp no matter what eq setting I tried.

As to the tension thing; to me on that bass atleast, they are generally not too stiff for the right hand and have a pleasing suppleness for the left, but in thumb position I find it a bit more of a struggle to get the higher notes to speak w/ enough vibration.

That being said I have posted here how I have loved the acoustic sound and their arco properties. However so much of my work is amplified and I have to have versatility. Perhaps it is the plastic core thing that bugs me thru the amp. I still haven't tried them on the Prescott. I'm worried they'd be just too dark on that bass. On the German I put back the Flat Chromsteels I was experimenting with. Now that there are broken in they sound really nice on that bass and amplify AND bow well. But not as loud w/o the amp. Still when I go back to the Prescott w/ Mittels and a Superflex G I feel like I've come home. TroyK, if you want a mellower G that goes well w/ Spiros you may want to try a Superflex G. Just wish the A and E strings were a little grabbier for the ol' I & V's on my arco Klezmer gigs.
It never ends I think.

BG

 

[Francois Blais]

Francois, you've had an EP G before, because I got my first one from you! Are you repeating your experiments?

Qu'est-ce tu fait?

Yes, I'm always experimenting... it never ends...

I must say that since I got me fingerboard completely reshaped, a couple of months ago, it had a very big impact on the way the strings play and sound.
I hated synthetic core strings, but now it seems I'm going that way, go figure!
(of course, I'll always bring a set of steels with me in case of a breakage...)
I like the Chromcors on the D & A.

 

[martinc]

Hi Martin.
Which Heritages did you try?
I ordered an E to replace the Obligato, and am curious about your opinion.
I'm waiting for the EP G in the mail in the next days.
But I like the Obli D & A so far.

Best,
François

Francois: D and A. Did not like them from the start but kept them on for a couple of weeks to see if they needed to settle in more. They were the most "plastic" sounding synthetic core strings I have ever tried.
The Obligato's were much better but unfortunately they do not last much more than 6 months. I rate the EP's quite a bit above the Obligato's. Don't know how long they will last though.

 

[D McCartney]

Troy, could I ask what it is you are looking for in a string? Do you use one type of string as a standard to measure other strings qualities?

 

[TroyK]

Troy, could I ask what it is you are looking for in a string? Do you use one type of string as a standard to measure other strings qualities?

I can't type now, my hand is shaking.

I'll have to give some thought to an answer, but I'll get back to you. It's like you're asking me the meaning of life.

 

[Uncletoad]

He wants a Spirocore that sounds like a Gut string, bows like a Flexocor, stays in tune and sounds perfect night after night no matter what the gig, plugged in or acoustic.

...and will make you a sandwich for the break.

 

[Ben Rolston]

He wants a Spirocore that sounds like a Gut string, bows like a Flexocor, stays in tune and sounds perfect night after night no matter what the gig, plugged in or acoustic.

...and will make you a sandwich for the break.

The sandwich is the key!

 

[TroyK]

You know, the Evah Pirazzi thread has been so orderly I didn't want to derail it, so I started a new one. If anyone can get through my Novella, I'd love to see your responses.

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?p=4966954#post4966954

 

[willroland]

Amen to this and to Ken Smith's similar comments.

Acoustic is acoustic....Natural sound generated in an acoustic space dispersed to human ears. Electric is "reproduced" sound.

Once you put pickups on a nice acoustic bass, plug it into a preamp, then to an amplifier and reproduce that sound with loudspeakers, that when compared to three-dimensional acoustic sound are fairly directional, you end up with a reproduced sound, much like the sound of an EUB.

This is why I gave up and got an NS CR4M for those gigs that cannot support acoustic performance. It's all a compromise...it's either that, or play the slab.

For me, the acoustic instruments gets the acoustic gigs or gigs where "electro acoustical" (ie:microphones) amplification is practical. My nice big acoustic bass sound translates well with an H-Clamp and my recently acquired Earthworks P30/C microphone. When its a loud, yakking, blender-infested, clanking glassware, drunken noise-fest, I just bring the NS and my EA rig.

Pickups generally hear more string than box. Most pickups I've tried amplify the sound of the string, especially its core. The air and the box tend to not end up as "amplifiyable" as the string.

If you could just use a mic it would most likely be fine.

This is why I could never get next to the "my bass but louder" thing. As soon as you plug in it's an electric instrument that works very differently than an acoustic instrument.

The EP strings drive a bass box very well. They have a pure souding core that doesn't confuse or diffuse the fundamental. As such I think they project extremely well. Better than say Spirocores as they have a more complex and diffuse tone coming from the core. Makes them an interesting string but not as clean in comparison to the EP.

I played with the EP at home and in an unamped rehearsal and was very stoked.

When I got out on a volume gig, especially when the bass was going through a loud PA with just a pickup it was a swampy mess.

Amplifying acoustic instruments is really a contradiction. As soon as you amplify them they cease to be acoustic.

I guess I never really stopped playing electric bass did I?

 

[stiv1]

Anyone have an idea when these strings are going to be back in stock anywhere? I am looking specifically for an A and a long E.