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Every Amp Has Too Much Overdrive At Loud Volume
- Thread starter Scrappersa
- Start date
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=724825
one thing that might help is ditching that 115sbx for a second 410sbx. it's your limiting factor. personally, i'd start over completely. if you want to get beyond your current volume, you need a big cab rig like maybe two 810s and either a big solid state amp or at least two svt's. or you might try horn loaded cab designs like you see in high end pa systems or cabs like the fearful with the low freq neo woofer and a mid driver (a big version of it). there's a reason bassists who play super loud have unusually large cab rigs. you just found it. me, i find it easier just to turn down.
I'd consider upgrading my whole rig. A higher power amp and at the least a higher performance cab would be on the horizon (610, 2x 410, or 810). I'm a huge fan of Genz Benz cabs and Gallien Krueger heads for loud, clean reproduction although that isn't what the GK's are known for. I can't say anything bad about the high end GK cabs either but I don't know them first hand. I don't think I'd ever find an act that my GB 610 XB2 and 1001RB-II couldn't handle.
I agree with Jimmy though. Another 410 will add more volume than your 15 does. This is a very rough estimate, but it probably moves about as much air as the equivalent of a 2x10.
One of these and a pre/power rig:
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=723510&highlight=fearful
Orrr...have a talk about stage volume with your band
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=723510&highlight=fearful
Orrr...have a talk about stage volume with your band
I'm looking into all of these options. If it's possible, I would like to keep my cabs down to one 810 or two 410s for the purpose of transportation. Thanks for the link to the topic on power handling. So my best bet would be to go with something like the 1001RB-II and two 410s that can handle more watts? What specific cabs would you guys recommend and how many watts should each cab handle (whether it's a 410 or 810)?
What are the differences between the 1001RB-II and the 1001RB?
What are the differences between the 1001RB-II and the 1001RB?
i'd get an 810 or two 410's because for the price and size it's going to be the loudest cab rig you can get. plus with an svt it's THE cab. once you get the cab stuff sorted, you might end up being ok with the svt. but if not, i'd probably be looking at closer to 800-1000w to really make a significant enough difference in clean volume and give you more headroom.
Ric5
Inactive
- Jan 29, 2008
- 29,772
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- I like 5, 8, 10, and 12 string basses
Get a big pa with mains and subs then play with pa support for the bass. That is how they do it at concerts.
6jase5
Mammogram is down but I'm working manually
+1......where is the PA in this equation?
My blueline svt and berg nv215 was a dual guitar players on "11" MB triple rectifier and a plexi killer so I just can't imagine the need for more. At the point of max volume the drummer might as well have stayed home so how is he/she even heard?
remember that not everyone has pa's suitable for running bass. and then there are the insane volume freaks out there playing doom and stuff.
Wow man there are so many things you can do to get a loud clean sound but it seems to me the issue may start and end with your bands volume!
Sounds like your guitar player(s) are going overkill on the volume and or your drummer is perhaps an outright basher! First thing is to try to get the group to play at a musical level, so the band can be heard and not each individual trying to be the loudest one!
Also EQ and amp placement are essential! There is only so much available space in the sonic spectrum. If your guitarist(s) is going for a big fat heavy low-mid sound, all of the instrument are starting to fight for the same sonic space, and none of them will be heard cleanly. Beginning musicians often make the mistake of sitting at home and dialing in their amps until it sounds a certain way and leave the knobs there because "That's my sound", ignoring the thought of the bands sound! Likewise you need to adjust your EQ settings so they compliment the guitar sound as well.
Amp placement: Been in hundreds of bands (so it seems) and 99.99% set up their amps for rehearsal and stand right in front of them. The sound waves are being projected at their kneecaps, past the player and across the room, they cant hear themselves so they turn up! In turn the other amps are doing the same thing screaming right past the player who can hardly hear it but they are blasting out the other guys standing across the room! No one can hear themselves so they turn up and it's an out of controll volume war with no hope. This is ESPECIALLY TRUE FOR BASS! Bass waves take longer to develop, try standing farther away from your amp, you may be surprised that the farther away from it you are, the more you can hear it. Also try using your amps like monitors and set them a few feet in front of you and aim them back at you. I've done this in bands before where we stand just like we would on stage, with the amps in a line in front of us and the results were an amazing even blend. Tiltback amp stands also work very well for guitarists to hear themselves without making others eardrums bleed!
Room acoustics are every bit as important if not more so! If you are playing in a live room with lots of hard surfaces, the sound will reflect off the walls/floor/celing and will make the upper registers much louder. Playing in a square room, can couse the sound waves to "bounce" off the wall back and forth eventually cancelling each other out (it's called comb filtering) and can actually make a signal virtually dissapear. What happens? The amp gets turned up louder! Imagine playing in a square room with lots of hard reflective surfaces, it's an audio nightmare!!!!!!!!!!
Playing a bass with a maple fingerboard will also give your bass a cutting presence in the mix, try it you'll like it! Also speaker cabs with 10 inch speakers seem to have more presence than say 15's.
I would give sereous consideration to all of the above as well as all the great advice from the previous posters!
Last but not least of course you want a bass rig that will deliver the sound you are looking for. I would reccomend a solid state or tube-hybrid amp with tons of headroom, tube amps by nature tend to break up when you crank them!
Good luck, hope this helps!
Sounds like your guitar player(s) are going overkill on the volume and or your drummer is perhaps an outright basher! First thing is to try to get the group to play at a musical level, so the band can be heard and not each individual trying to be the loudest one!
Also EQ and amp placement are essential! There is only so much available space in the sonic spectrum. If your guitarist(s) is going for a big fat heavy low-mid sound, all of the instrument are starting to fight for the same sonic space, and none of them will be heard cleanly. Beginning musicians often make the mistake of sitting at home and dialing in their amps until it sounds a certain way and leave the knobs there because "That's my sound", ignoring the thought of the bands sound! Likewise you need to adjust your EQ settings so they compliment the guitar sound as well.
Amp placement: Been in hundreds of bands (so it seems) and 99.99% set up their amps for rehearsal and stand right in front of them. The sound waves are being projected at their kneecaps, past the player and across the room, they cant hear themselves so they turn up! In turn the other amps are doing the same thing screaming right past the player who can hardly hear it but they are blasting out the other guys standing across the room! No one can hear themselves so they turn up and it's an out of controll volume war with no hope. This is ESPECIALLY TRUE FOR BASS! Bass waves take longer to develop, try standing farther away from your amp, you may be surprised that the farther away from it you are, the more you can hear it. Also try using your amps like monitors and set them a few feet in front of you and aim them back at you. I've done this in bands before where we stand just like we would on stage, with the amps in a line in front of us and the results were an amazing even blend. Tiltback amp stands also work very well for guitarists to hear themselves without making others eardrums bleed!
Room acoustics are every bit as important if not more so! If you are playing in a live room with lots of hard surfaces, the sound will reflect off the walls/floor/celing and will make the upper registers much louder. Playing in a square room, can couse the sound waves to "bounce" off the wall back and forth eventually cancelling each other out (it's called comb filtering) and can actually make a signal virtually dissapear. What happens? The amp gets turned up louder! Imagine playing in a square room with lots of hard reflective surfaces, it's an audio nightmare!!!!!!!!!!
Playing a bass with a maple fingerboard will also give your bass a cutting presence in the mix, try it you'll like it! Also speaker cabs with 10 inch speakers seem to have more presence than say 15's.
I would give sereous consideration to all of the above as well as all the great advice from the previous posters!
Last but not least of course you want a bass rig that will deliver the sound you are looking for. I would reccomend a solid state or tube-hybrid amp with tons of headroom, tube amps by nature tend to break up when you crank them!
Good luck, hope this helps!
Thanks for the advice on PA's. If I were to get a nice PA for only my bass, then I would keep the SVT-2 and just run it through the PA since I love how the SVT sounds at a lower volume. Are there any good PA's that you recommend checking out?
JimmyM, if I were to upgrade to a second 410 or to just one 810, what would you recommend the RMS watt power be on each cab?
Edit: And I want to clarify, that when I ran my SVT-2 through the 810, I had the same problem. So how would swapping my 115 for a 410 be an improvement over and 810 other than the closed cabinet sounding better to my ears?
JimmyM, if I were to upgrade to a second 410 or to just one 810, what would you recommend the RMS watt power be on each cab?
Edit: And I want to clarify, that when I ran my SVT-2 through the 810, I had the same problem. So how would swapping my 115 for a 410 be an improvement over and 810 other than the closed cabinet sounding better to my ears?
Changing to a PA setup involves a lot of responsibility for everyone in the band. It's a valid approach and it can simplify everything for everyone, but it takes a disciplined group to run their own sound.
* You're not going to solve your problems with a PA unless you get everyone to control their stage volume.
* You're not going to solve your problems with a PA unless you get everyone to control their stage volume.
Oh man...
If you got a PA just for your bass... it would be a bass amp. It wouldn't be a PA anymore.
If you love the clean sound of your SVT, I'd recommend getting an SVP-PRO preamp and a 1000W solid state power amp.
AND LOTS OF CABS.
it all depends on who's honest and who's not. there are a few honest companies. but most use thermal ratings which you can usually count on being half or less their rating in the real world. that's one reason i like ampeg. their power handling specs are pretty honest in the real world. generally i've found most quality 410's of normal design made these days can take 400w-500w ballpark at the most. so just bear that in mind as a general guideline and it should make your decision about what you need a little easier.
Edit: And I want to clarify, that when I ran my SVT-2 through the 810, I had the same problem. So how would swapping my 115 for a 410 be an improvement over and 810 other than the closed cabinet sounding better to my ears?
+1 also ... SS amps by nature deliver a clean tone up to the point that they distort in a square wave form odd harmonics that sound horrible to human ears. Tube amps gradually add more round wave even order harmonics that eventually become nothing but an overdriven tone or pure distortion when cranked. The G-K will sound clean and precise until you are clipping the head. Cheers.
